Posted by: Rich in VA ®
12/21/2001, 07:30:52
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Supposed to get off of work a bit early today, hope to have time to run by the house and chrono some 7.0 gr Blue Dot loads in the 17 Mach IV. Will let you know...... BTW, I finally got up enough nerve to install studs on my Cooper. Man, that was a gut-wrenching experience. Rich
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Posted by: corbin shell
12/21/2001, 08:08:16
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Rich,
What is the purpose of using blue dot. Are you looking for reduced velocity and noise. If so why dont you get a different caliber.Corbin
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Posted by: Dan C ®
12/21/2001, 08:53:14
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Must everything be based on practicality? That's one of the attractive things about handloading and wildcats, trying different things......... Dan C
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Posted by: corbin shell
12/21/2001, 19:09:26
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Is this Dan Cooper of Cooper Firearms? It seems my post was taken in the wrong manner and some are getting a little testy. My intention for the question was not to stir up a hornets nest. Way back in my pea brain I remember reading something about reduced loads being very dangerous. Something to do with a pressure wave??? If anyone can expound on this please reply. If not then I will have to dust off some old reading material. Long live the .17 Remington. Corbin Shell
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Posted by: Dave S.
12/21/2001, 21:56:03
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I have heard of a condition that can occur with reduced loads where the powder "detonates" by burning from front to back in the case. The idea is that the impulse from the primer jumps through the empty space in the case and ignites the powder in the front first, in some way causing an overpressure "explosion" instaed of a "burn".
I believe this is extremely rare if true, and probably not an issue with proven reduced loads that fill the case reasonably well.
I have had a lot of fun with reduced loads in my .22 Hornet and I plan to try the Blue Dot .223 loads as well.
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Posted by: Dan C ®
12/21/2001, 22:11:15
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Just another enthusiast like you Corbin. Safe, accurate, reliable reduced loads can be be put together for any cartridge in existence. The trick is finding the right powder for the job. I am by no means an expert, but generally pistol or fast rifle powders that bulk up well are the rule here. When the rare bad thing happens, detonation, etc., it's because a reduced load was attempted by simply reducing the charge of a 'standard' powder for the cartridge. For example, if you wanted a reduced load for your 17 Rem, you would not try loading 8 grains of Varget or 4320! That is where people run into trouble.........Slower burning powders need a certain fill ratio and pressure level to work properly. Faster burning numbers are usually much more tolerant and work in a much broader range of pressures. I think the reduced 17 Mach IV load is a neat idea and can certainly broaden the usefulness of the rifle. I haven't tried them as I also have a 17 Ackley Hornet. I HAVE shot reduced loads in it however. A 15 grain Berger ahead of 3.0 grains of Bullseye gets about 2200 fps and is a fun little load for special situations. Even so, I'll probably STILL get one of those little 17 rimfires when they show up........... Dan C
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Posted by: Rich in VA ®
12/21/2001, 13:13:36
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Well, a pound of powder is a bit cheaper than another caliber. Will be glad to provide my address for a donation........ Richard Jones
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Posted by: John Mills
12/21/2001, 08:17:54
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Would have to agree with Mr. Shell on this one, sort of like buying a Corvette and then trying to make it run on kerosene.
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Posted by: jim saubier
12/21/2001, 08:51:09
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I think that if you can have some versatility with the calibers that you have with reloading - then that is great. I think that one of the advantages of reloading is that you can custom tailor ammunition. Why then would you not want to take full advantage of your gun? I think that if you can maintain good accuracy and acheive your noise reduction or slower velocity goals - then do so. Just my .02. I have seen a number of the blue dot loads and even the reduced load of n310 below in the forum. I haven't had the need to do so yet, but if I needed to do some backyard varminting or near the farm house - great. Beware of the man with one gun type of mentality.
Modified by jim saubier at Fri, Dec 21, 2001, 12:42:07
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Posted by: redfeather
12/21/2001, 20:01:08
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They both have said that no rifle is complete without a full/near max velocity load, and also a reduced load. To leave the reduced load behind takes away from the versatility of alot of rifles and the inherent possibilities with that rifle/caliber combination. I shoot bluedot loads at reduced velocities because I want to have less noise and pelt damage, and I also shoot fast velocity bluedot loads because they are cheap to load and shoot in a prairie dog town and give me the same point of impact. If a person does not expand their horizons and experiment with different loads then they just might be missing alot of the inherent potential of that rifle/caliber combination. I also help train the National Guard service rifle teams and the sniper teams, and we work with reduced loads out of a need for stealth/quietness. There are alot of Army Officers that have helped out greatly by experimenting and testing different loads, and what those loads can do. Thanks - redfeather.
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Posted by: Drifter
12/22/2001, 19:16:25
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I am with you. I shoot reduced loads in my 17 rem when I use it for fox , it is much easier on pelts and still has great performance. I have settled in on 10 g of blue dot with 25 gr starke's. I think they are a great way to get the most out of your rifle. The 17 rem can be loaded down to mild 2500 fps with 20 g bullets if you wanted to mimic the new rave 17hrm, and up to standard 17 rem @4000fps to dust varmints, and everything 17 inbetween. Shooting 9.5g with 25gr starkes in my mach IV and that one is a great fox load too, took a big boy last week , 22 lbs of fox with one teeny tiny pin hole in the hide , but dropped like a stone. I may grab up a classic in 221fb , convert it to 17 mach IV and sell my other two and I'll be 17 complete with one rifle. about every week I want a new toy, but for now it has to be adjusting loads rather than another rifle. see ya
p.s. if you chrono, could you post your results, would like to see what your getting from the various loads. Thanks
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Posted by: Stan Myers ®
12/22/2001, 21:52:38
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Rich:
Studs on a Cooper Varminter.....pure sacrilege. Probably the next thing your going to do is put iron sights on it. Stan
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Posted by: Rich in VA ®
12/23/2001, 06:37:02
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Stan, I DID put some recessed ones in..... it was really tough to do, but I wanted to hunt more with it, easier to do with a sling, and now I can mount the bipod on it, when I am not using my sticks. Richard ( no non-work guns here, but I did put the chips and sawdust under glass with a nice brass commemorative plaque........) Jones
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Posted by: Mike P Michael Prudhomme, Michael Prudhomme
12/24/2001, 06:39:59
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Wow, Richard, those chips & sawdust relics will be as cherished as saints' bones in the Vatican. Nice Holiday Touch! How about leaving them in your Will to the Saubier museum.
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Posted by: John Mills
12/25/2001, 22:43:34
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Sure has been an intresting string. Have been shooting for a lot of years and having made nearly every mistake known to shooters, one of the main reason I don't use reduced loads in the 17 will become painfully aware to you, when in a rush to go hunting you grab the box that goes pop and not the box that goes boom.
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Posted by: jim saubier
12/21/2001, 08:52:54
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The delete function has been activated so that you can delete or edit your posts. To do so, it looks like you have to login at the forum main page. THen open the message that you want to delete and click on the delete button. Let me know if you have any problems doing so. thanks.
jim
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Posted by: Doug Rumbaugh ®
12/21/2001, 10:23:05
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Thanks for the delete function; I like being able to clean up my mistakes. It works fine although I might mention you have to click the Edit link first to get to the Delete button.
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Posted by: jim saubier
12/21/2001, 10:41:18
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I knew that i would leave something out. Thanks for adding that.
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Posted by: Tackdriver ®
12/21/2001, 13:11:59
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Hello,
Has anybody ever found a gunsmith who was able to build a revolver (a converted Blackhawk springs to mind) on any of the 17 caliber rounds and make it work? I just got off the phone to Reader custom guns, and they have dropped their 17 caliber stuff, due to their 8" length was not allowing rounds from the 17 AH and 17 AB to stablize......causing "only 1 inch" groups at 50 yards. I was thinking just to use a longer or a fast twist barrel to clear up this problem.
Help would be appreciated.
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Posted by: Nick B
12/23/2001, 22:12:09
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No idea who could do the work, but as a cartridge base you could try to find a Ruger revolver in .30 Carbine and rebarrel to .17 Carbine. Otherwise, maybe a .17/357? By the way, what kind of velocity were they getting from that revolver they tested? Good luck.
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Posted by: jim saubier
12/24/2001, 18:00:42
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Gary Reeder is the guy I believe does the revolver work and offers them in several .17 Calibers. THere was atleast one article in Small Caliber News with the revolver. You can call Todd Kindler and purchase that single edition of SCN. or drop me an e-mail and I can look up the contact information.
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Posted by: Tackdriver ®
12/31/2001, 20:54:22
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Jim,
Gary Reeder has since stopped working on 17 calibers.
Something about bad accuracy. I called him and that was what he said.
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Posted by: Tackdriver ®
12/31/2001, 20:54:44
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Jim,
Gary Reeder has since stopped working on 17 calibers.
Something about bad accuracy. I called him and that was what he said.
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