| 17 Ack Hornet, Difference 17 K Hornet |
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Posted by: Barry Thomas ®
12/31/2001, 07:14:46
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Whats the difference between the 17 K hornet and the 17 Ack hornet? Thanks.
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Posted by: Dan C ®
12/31/2001, 14:01:56
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The Ackley version has a 30 degree shoulder versus the 'K' at 35 degrees. Other dimensions are nearly identical, as is loading data. The Ackley is easier to find dies for, and many 'smiths have the reamer, so that is the version most people go with....... Dan C
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| Varmint Hunter and Steve Timm |
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Posted by: Cook
12/31/2001, 16:07:25
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Whats the general concensus regarding the slam Steve Timm gave the .17's, 19's and 20's in the last issue (see VH October 2001 "Favorite Varmint Cartridges"). I thought it was a cheap shot. You can put down a particular cartridge but to blast an entire caliber turned a lot of people away from small calibers. Maybe I'm getting overly sensitive, but since last September I'm getting a little picky over who I support. Even canceled my subscription to the VH over it. On the other hand who could argue with the support we get from Hornady, Berger, Calhoon and now Ruger and Marlin. Just some thoughts.
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Posted by: Dan C ®
12/31/2001, 17:54:28
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OK, you asked for it! Every time I read Steve Timm, I like him less and less. He has simply turned into a whore for Winchester, Redding, and Nosler. Hence, his lack of interest in small calibers. But here's the kicker. In his recent article, he commented on how badly his Kimber 17 Mach IV fouled, how he had to continuously clean it, etc. Then he goes on to say what a drag it is to have to buy special cleaning rods, powder funnel, etc. Waaaa! Gimme a break! Most of us that frequent this forum know that is total BS. If the guy really thinks the Fireball is the ultimate gopher cartridge, he ought to try a 17 Ackley Hornet, 19 Calhoon, or one of a host of other sub calibers. But I'm preaching to the choir here........ But it gets better! Break back to an article Timm wrote back around 1985 or so in one of the rags. This same article can be found in Wolfe Publishings 'Wildcat Cartridges' book. This article is written about the SAME Kimber 17 Mach IV, and Timm can't say enough about how great it is, and he also mentions how little it fouls. He shot something like 200 rounds through it without cleaning, and his group size only increased something like .2" at 100 yards. He totally contradicts himself, made me laugh. Todd Kindler actually dug out a copy of this old article and sent a copy to VH magazine so they could see for themselves. I've totally lost respect for Timm. It's getting old reading about him bragging on how many kills he has made with such and such famous person. I do like the VH magazine and will continue with it as there are many other worthy authors featured, but good ole' Steve won't get much of my time anymore. Sorry about the vent guys............. Dan C
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Posted by: T. D. Clevenger
12/31/2001, 23:03:53
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I agree that Steve Timm can be a butt. However, I think it is over-reacting to cancel your subscription just because Steve is not very honest. Lots of the articles are written by guys like us, with no agenda other than touting our favorites and sharing our experiences.
Todd
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Posted by: Cook
01/01/2002, 14:08:03
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Yeah, I guess some might say that I over-reacted, but I'm getting a little tired of the lack of support that some manufacturers give the small calibers and to have a solid magazine such as VH publish an opinion that is 20 years outdated is something that I wanted to make a statement about. That said, I want to be the first one to say that VH has published a fair amount of small caliber articles. I was a member since about 95 and when I joined I bought every back issue they had available. But today for me it isn't the quantity of articles that wins the ball game. It's the content. In this case the Timm article kind of stunk up the magazine. Maybe some individual's receive support from Nosler. Maybe Nosler has every reason to convince people that .17's and .20's are illegitimate. Maybe a magazine's staff needs to be a little more critical of such all-inclusive statements that damn an entire caliber.
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Posted by: redfeather
01/01/2002, 17:06:59
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I am going to write/call TVHA about his article because I am a life member of TVHA , and do not intend to cancel because of one free lance writer prostitute that wants to pump his sponsors. The biggest majority of this pay for hire writters do nothing more than pump the sponsors that pay the bills, and you watch as soon as these guys switch to some other sponsors they switch the pitch real quick. Thanks for all the good 17 and small caliber info on this site.
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Posted by: John Mills
01/01/2002, 16:00:25
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A direct quote from Mr.Timm in Wildcat Cartridges, page 865 to be exact, "Simply stated the 17MachIV shoots as flat and kills as well as the 22-250 - yet recoils like the 22Hornet". I'm glad to see that Mr. Timm's drivel-lite is being seen for what it is. In the same book he has an article on the fantastic 6X45 and the 221 Fireball, so guess whats coming next issue.
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Posted by: corbin shell
01/01/2002, 16:40:09
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My 2 cents. I do not know this Steve Timm guy and cannot comment on his writings. Just ask Steve to read our postings and review our results. Maybe that would at least guide him twards the light. Long live the .17 Remington Corbin Shell
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Posted by: Cook
01/01/2002, 19:18:31
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Ned Kalbfleish is the editor in Chief of the VH and he gets the credit or criticism about what's published. Ned seems to be a sound businessman and I can only assume that the paragraph or two that slammed the small calibers was an oversight on their part. Still I think that he owes it to his membership to allow a counter article that paints a truer picture than Timm described. When he does that I'll re-subscribe and buy all back issues that I might have missed. Until then, the money I spend on my hobby will go to people like Todd Kindler, Steve Hornady, Tom Thomas, Dan Cooper, the Stark family and those that support the .17's and .20's. I used to buy Ballistic Tip's out of habbit, but I'm finding that the Hornady V-Max shoot just fine for me. If I had Ned's e-mail I'd pass along a few of your thoughts.
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Posted by: jim saubier
01/02/2002, 07:51:19
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I had the pleasure of reading the older article as well. It is simply amazing that he had such a change of heart. He couldn't find nicer words to say about the .17 Mach IV when he was shooting one of them, but now all of a sudden the .17's get blown all over, foul barrels, require extra loading stuff.... I was a little disturbed by the statements made by him. ALSO, as i understand it, STEVE is not a freelance writer but a STAFF writer for VHA. I may be wrong, but that is what I have been told. The VHA has published a fair number of small caliber articles - as they should since their primary target audience is VARMINT hunters. I think that the harm done will not easily be corrected.
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Posted by: redfeather
01/02/2002, 09:59:46
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Email him at editor@varminthunter.org I plan to email him today about the Steve Timm article, and a few other concerns that I have with the magazine. It would be nice if all of us here emailed Ned because there is power in numbers. We will have a better effort if all of us email Ned rather than just a couple of us. Thanks.
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Posted by: jim saubier
01/02/2002, 14:02:13
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I tried to send Ned an e-mail but the above address didn't work.
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Posted by: redfeather
01/02/2002, 19:58:54
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Thanks.
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