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Posted by: Kurt Achenbach 03/17/2002, 00:57:34 |
I'm curious to find a 17 cartridge that offers the maximum velocity with 25-30 grain bullets, without being overbore and still accurate. The PPC and BR burn more powder than the 17 Remington without any real velocity advantage. are the 17VLR and Todd kindler's Tactical 17 on that fine "optimum" threshold?
They were both talked about briefly in a previous thread but not enough for this question. How would a 17 Remington Ackley Improved compare? How's Dan C's 17 Predator turning out? |
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Posted by: Coyote Slayer ® 03/17/2002, 02:46:36 Author Profile |
I have a VLR and use Todds 29 grbt and the burger 30gr I have gotten from 3900 to 4000 fps with them and have killed a lot of wolves out 400 yards with out a problem you can push the case up to 4200 fps but you will loose the case after the third reload the primmer pockets just loosen right up. When i got the rifle there was no loads for it execpt for the 37gr burger I hate to build a rifle on one bullet and on one company. But have worked up loads for Benchmark, AA2700 and Varget another case that I think is the total max with not being to over bore is the 17-225 it reaches 4444 with IMR 4350 and a 25 gr bullet now my VlR is not a short barrel it is a 29 inch barrel with a 1 in 9 twist I have looked at the 17-22-250 and it will reach the same speed of 4444fps but with a lot more powder 38 gr of IMR 4350 compared to the 225 with a load of 33 gr of IMR 4350 and a 25 gr bullet the Tac 17 is going to be
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Posted by: Kurt Achenbach 03/17/2002, 09:32:23 |
I have a 17 rem and the more I find out about it the more I love it. But one always thinks, what if... So I was wondering what the practical limit was. Somebody else was thinking the same thing but with the requirement of feeding thru a Remington 700 action-pretty smart I think. Something based on the 223 cartridge is probably where this will end up.
Thanks! |
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Posted by: Dan C ® 03/17/2002, 11:33:09 Author Profile |
Hey Kurt. My goal with the 17 Predator is just how you are thinking. Past experience, and conversations with others led me to the final design. There IS performance over and above what the 17 Remington is capable of. More case capacity will always get you more velocity provided a proper powder is available. The 17 PPC and 17 BR's are getting from 4100 to 4200 fps with the 30's......but if you can get them to feed at all it is marginal and finicky. Same goes with some of the Ackley designs on the 223 case. They are just too straight-sided to work well in a 700. The Predator uses a 30 degree shoulder for slick feeding along with a sufficient amount of body taper, but not TOO much. Kindler's 17 VLR and 17 Tactical have shoulder diameters of .360", where my Predator is .365" which I believe is the upper limit. 223 Ackleys are .370-.372". The body of the Predator is .025" longer than the 17 Tactical also, leaving the neck about as short as you would want it. It MIGHT be possible to run a 40 degree shoulder with the .365" shoulder and still feed well, but I didn't want to risk it. The 17 Predator has a case capacity very close to the 17 PPC, and I'm hoping for 4100 fps with the Kindler 29's and new 30's. All this is guessing so far, as it will be awhile before my test rifle will be completed. Matt Smith will be having one built as well. I just delivered the reamer to Greg Tannel, and my Lilja barrel will be there Monday, but he is so backlogged now that it is looking like a few months....I will report here as soon as I get my new toy to the range. Dan C |
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Posted by: Dan C ® 03/19/2002, 05:31:04 Author Profile |
In looking over the reamer print for the 17 Tactical, I see that the Predator is .050" longer in the body, not .025". I was looking at the wrong number....... Dan C |
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Posted by: Coyote Slayer ® 03/17/2002, 13:07:29 Author Profile |
As far as feeding goes the VLR runs just fine in a rem 700 action and has not given me any feeding problems to date there is the 17-222 mag that is just necked down to 17 with no other body changes and it has some high fps also at one time people thought this was the max in bouth FPS and Powder Have a great sunday: Coyote Slayer Eat Moose 20,000 wolves can't be wrong |
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Posted by: Kurt Achenbach 03/17/2002, 16:06:05 |
Great Info guys! Coyote slayer, good practical consideration on the 37 gr Berger. It a neat Idea but is very limited market /application. Dan C, YOU GOTTA let us know about how the 17 Predator develops. I may have to "rent" the reamer from you and send it back to Greg Tannel. Thanks for posting the pic too. I look at it almost every time I log on. Thanks for a great thread! |
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Posted by: 17VLD 03/17/2002, 18:40:14 |
I think your question is a very good one!I've always wondered why Todd Kindler skipped over the 17 VarTarg Turbo as I thought that would have been a dandy,what with all the dies and go, no-go gauges being the same.I have always liked cartridges based on 222 brass and know for a fact that the straight 17-222 will do almost what a 17 Rem does even with short barrels.I now see the way Todd is going with the 17 Tactical and it makes lots of sense, to follow along with the Tatical series is just a great idea for Todd.Since Dan C has come up with the 17Predator first and I think it will be more powerful I deceided I had to build(needed)another gun for varmint hunting,so I chose too build one also.I really believe Todds new 30Gold will be a good killer as well as a superb target bullet too!With these new heavier 17 bullets these Max 17's will have new life that previously would have been way too much just ten years ago.As the old cigarette ad used to say "You've come a long way baby"
Regards Matt |
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Posted by: corbin shell 03/17/2002, 21:15:56 |
Forget about all that "extra" performance everyone is claiming with the wildcat flavor of the month. Go with a straight .17 Rem with a 27-28" tube. The proof is in the pudding and the pudding is on the paper. Corbin Shell |
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Posted by: Dan C ® 03/19/2002, 05:35:02 Author Profile |
You don't *honestly* think that the 17 Rem is a better long range cartridge than say, the 17 PPC, do you? There is a whole new world out there you're missing. Dan C |
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Posted by: Todd Kindler 03/19/2002, 09:03:03 |
Amen..Dan C!
More to follow. Todd Kindler-Editor
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Posted by: Kurt Achenbach 03/19/2002, 09:38:14 |
I've been thinking of building a walking varminter with a 25" barrel-MAX! If a barrel over this is needed, than the whole topic is moot. The one term I used is "Practical Limit."
It appears as if the 17 Predator is to the tactical what the Hebee is to the Ackley bee. The predator may have more capacity but Mr. Kindler is in a position to rally more support for his cartridge. This is another Practical consideration. Yesterday I FINALLY got my SCN! Inside the front cover is a *#@! tease about the Tactical 17! Now I have to wait another 3 months! Todd, The tactical 17 had better be in the 3rd edition "SENSATIONAL SEVENTEENS"! Modified by Kurt Achenbach at Fri, Mar 22, 2002, 02:09:21 |
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Posted by: Coyote Slayer ® 03/19/2002, 14:06:03 Author Profile |
Kurt the moast important thing is to do what you really want to do I go through this all the time when i am about to build a new rifle I drive eyery one I know just plum crazy. I think in all truth when you start a projuct your frist idea you come up with is what you really want, of corse you try and grab all the info out there and each has its owen good and bad points and of corse, I tell you what works for me but I am just not going after chucks ,or coyotes, or PDs, I work coyotes and wolves and other people only shoot papper. MY GunSmith allmoast has a heart attack when i walk in his place and start talking about building a gun the reason is becous there is so many to choose from and each has it owen use and being the coast is so high you went the best bang for the buck so you want to cover as many use's as you can the truth is they all work the range may be different but if you want a walking rifle then you sure do not want a 30lb rifle the trip would be over before it starts so just take in all the Info and sort through it and put it in the what are my needs and go from there.Boy I wish i would listen to my self now an then LOL LOL LOL.I have all my work rifles and they cover my needs the VLR takes Coyotes and wolves to a point then i have a 224 clark and that does the job from this range to here and then my ultra long is a 6.5 X 300 weatherby all kill at any of the ranges but i would like to get my fur out in one peace. Just trust your owen Ideas :Have a good day Coyote Slayer Eat Moose 20,000 wolves can't be wrong |
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Posted by: Dan C ® 03/20/2002, 11:35:12 Author Profile |
Kurt, your comparison of the Predator and Tactical 17's is pretty good. Todd will have dies on the shelf for the Tactical, making it easier to own one. Here is a case capacity comparison, to the base of the neck: 17 Tactical holds 26.3 grains of water
By comparison, the 17 Remington holds 24.1 grains of water to the base of the neck. These figures were determined using the cartridge designer utility in the RCBS.Load program. Dan C |
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Posted by: Todd Kindler 03/20/2002, 12:25:29 |
Dan,
That is really great information and all three cartridges will perform very well to long range. Our 27,29 and new 30 grain Gold Boat-Tail bullets will make these "Big" seventeens outstanding 500 yard varmint cartridges. I also like the excellent brass that is available for the 17 Tactical,17 Predator and the 17 PPC. The early tests (with your and Matts help)at 500-600 yards have already proven the accuracy potential of our new 30 grain Gold bullets with the 17 PPC and 17 Javelina. Just wait until we get the 17 Predator and 17 Tactical cranked up! Good job my friends! Todd Kindler-Editor
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Posted by: corbin shell 03/20/2002, 11:55:15 |
I want to see the difference on paper at distance. Do you honestly think a 100 or 200fps is going to make that big of differnece at say 400-600yards. You will be much better off spending your time sharpening your wind reading skills than fooling with wildcat case preperation. Come to Butner lets see the difference. All naysayers welcome. Corbin Shell |
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Posted by: Dan C ® 03/20/2002, 12:51:03 Author Profile |
OK Corbin, let's see if I can help you understand here. No, a couple hundred fps won't make all the difference in the world. It will make some, in reduced wind drift. However, brass quality and preparation WILL make a big difference. As a target shooter I assumed you already knew this. Remington 17 brass is not the best of quality. Top quality 223 brass is everywhere, and I don't even have to mention the quality of PPC brass. Properly prepared brass is the foundation of accurate ammunition. Starting with 17 Rem brass without at least cleaning up the necks is putting yourself at a disadvantage right from the start, and as I recall you don't even neck turn for hell's sake! You seem to have something against people who like to experiment and create new things. Thank god people such as yourself didn't persuade Palmisano and Pindell to just stick with the .222 Remington case and learn to read the wind!!!! And please, ease up on the little challenges at the end of each post. Jim and all, I apologize for the tone of this reply. Dan C |
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Posted by: corbin shell 03/20/2002, 13:48:32 |
Dan,
You are correct in that I do not turn the necks on my .17 Rem. I purchased a batch of 500 pcs. The necks were fine. For a "Highpower" rifle I see no need to turn necks. Neck diameter is .197" which is a little smaller than SAMMI. I have measured quiet a bit of .17rem brass and it seems pretty good. Good enough for me not to neck turn. I have NOTHING against experimenting or wildcatting. My opinion is that there is a whole bunch of work expended for something that "might" be gained. Ease up on the challenges. Why? If you have the latest and greatest I would think you would welcome a challenge. Heck Todd Kindler called me a fool and said the .17 would never work at 600 yards. Guess some people are again evaluating the effectiveness of these little pills.
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Posted by: foxhunterbubba 03/20/2002, 19:27:00 |
I know I 'm taking my life in my hands by jumping in here, but its my life. there are riflemen and there are shooters,one wants practical accuracy one wants ultimate accuracy. The rifleman wants as much accuracy as he can get to to dispatch critters as humanely as possible. The shooter as in bench rest shooter wants smaller groups, every thousanth of an inch he can get. He spends most of his time at the bench honing his skill. Now do you realy think a prarie dog can tell if he was killed with a 17 tactical or a 17 rem. or a 17 preadator of if the gun was shooting a .010 in or .50 that day. And my dady can beat up your daddy.
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Posted by: Alex M. Clarke ® 04/05/2002, 14:37:53 Author Profile |
Yep! Todd said he'd never own a 17 Remington. Told me that about 5 years ago. I had just bought his "SS" book. Said something about it being "overbore" and a barrel burner. Now just look! Todd has become the worst speed freak I've ever met. Any thing under 4200 fps is just poking along. What happenned to the guy that was agog over the 17 Squirrel, or who absolutely insisted I had to have a 17AH? The only "YAWN" is when you loose interest. If you're really interested in the stoogie 22LR, and that's what strokes your hide, then it's the best rifle in the world. Challange? Only when you say "my daddy can beat your daddy," or something unacceptable like "your mommy wears combat boots." (actually that last is now politically correct, but then I'm a bit out of date.) Just found this forum. Love it! A. |
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Posted by: Doug Rumbaugh ® 03/20/2002, 16:51:45 Author Profile |
I really shouldn't jump in here but I would like to suggest that there is an alternative to Remington's brass. I think the RWS 5.6x50 Magnum brass is about as good as it gets as confirmed in a couple wildcat articles I have read. I can make .17 Remington cases from it (with a lot of effort) and get a fitted neck (.198 to my .200 chamber) with 100% uniform neck thickness (+/-.0001 or two). The case capacity is somewhat reduced but I can push those 30 grain Bergers pretty close to where they go "poof" at 3800 fps. I know I can go higher but that would reduce brass life. I haven't done a lot of comparison yet against the Remington brass head to head but it seems to me to provide better accuracy and will certainly last longer. You have to understand my gun is a factory Sako so, although it is a .5 MOA gun with moments of greatness, it isn't a custom competition job. I am going to change my scope rings and air it out at 600 yards this spring (maybe even 1000 if I can get enough adjustment out of it). These .17s are really fun and I completely understand why people like wildcats. When I have my next .17 built, it will be based on the 5.6x50 Magnum necked down to .17 with some improvements. Does the world need another wildcat, no. Is it sane to spend all the extra money for custom reamers, custom dies etc. , no. Will it be nice to have the only gun like it, darn right! |
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Posted by: Todd Kindler 03/20/2002, 22:41:15 |
Here is a photo of our 17 VLR (very long range) that I designed in 1994 to test heavy prototype 17 caliber bullets before Walt Berger and I put them on the market. On the right is the 17 PPC which is a great performer with heavy 17 bullets. We will soon be testing the 17 Tactical as well. I like the excellent quality brass available in 223 and PPC for the "Big" seventeens!
Oh we have now been testing various 17's for over 12 years from point blank range to 750 yards and try to answer customers' questions as accuratly as possible considering his 17 cartridge and type of rifle. We are quoted out of context from time to time, but I guess that goes with the territory. It should be a fun and exciting year testing the 17 Tactical and Dan testing his new 17 Predator with these high B.C. Gold bullets. Good shooting. Todd Kindler
Related link: http://home.attbi.com/~highxj/todd.jpg |
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Posted by: foxhunterbubba 03/21/2002, 01:43:52 |
todd i think i'm gona have to have me one of those 17 ppc and a 20 ppc. i wonder if the 20 br is as good or better than the ppc? |
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Posted by: Dan C ® 03/20/2002, 22:47:56 Author Profile |
Now, Doug here has hit upon a way to end up with top quality brass for the 17 Remington. Great idea Doug. Did you get your forming issues solved? Oh, and you're always welcome to jump in anywhere, anytime. Dan C |
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Posted by: Doug Rumbaugh ® 03/21/2002, 16:56:54 Author Profile |
Dan, Well the answer is yes and no. I got a procedure together that worked well and I made up 30 cases and fire formed them. I am shooting and reloading 10 of them with a load I worked up (these have a variation in neck thickness less than .001" while the other 20 are about as close to perfect as I can imagine). Anyway, I like the round to chamber very easily and have to use my body die every reload to bump the shoulder back a tad to achieve this. As it turns out, my primer pockets are loosening up very gradually so I think I need to back down my charge or switch to a slower powder. I am using VihtaVouri N135 and getting a little less than 3800 fps with pretty good accuracy. I have to get some more brass and repeat the procedure to be sure. I think the step I am most uncomfortable with is the annealing which I have never done before. In a few months of shooting and loading I will be in a better position to answer if all the effort was worth it. |
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| Rejoicing for the 5mm | | ||
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Posted by: MikeP 03/17/2002, 15:51:07 |
Well, the smallbore gods are rejoicing throughout all of Gundom this fine St. Patrick's Day...another little angel arose from the footnotes of history and renewed its shooting career again. Yep, I fired my ole 5mm Remington 591 for the first time in 20 years today with a new twist: centerfire 5mm rounds. I've been casually working on converting this little gun to centerfire for the past several weeks using the patented centerfire bolthead conversion kit by Schroeder. I also used new centerfire brass from Schroeder, which is converted from Hornet cases, and 40-grain Schroeder spire points. I loaded just enought of the little rounds to test the mechanicals and to work up to near factory spec velocity...and they all worked as advertised! The loads I used were made up of some old 2400 I've had around the house for years. Although the old 2400 put a little soot in the barrel, I was pleased with the results: right at 2000 fps from 5 grains of 2400 with the 40-grain spire-point bullets as measured on my Chrony. No signs of pressure that I could see, so I could probably go higher. I worked up the loads in 0.1 grain increments, because a case this small can overheat in a hurry. However, in exactly 18 rounds with the first type of powder I used, I've got the little Remington to at or near factory specs, which were about 2100 fps with 38-grain bullets. It almost seemed too easy. I'll be trying the Hodgdon H-110 and Lil Gun next, after I send off an order for some. I've read that Lil Gun has made the 17 Hornady Rimfire Magnum possible, and it seems to work very well in other small cases. I would assume it would also do good in the little 5mm case. I've read for sure the H-110 does. However, I was really pleased with the old-fashioned 2400 too. I may have a few darkened cleaning patches laying in the waste basket, but the Hoppes's No. 9 seems happy to have something to do today, and it's doing it well. I'm looking forward to filling an empty niche in my gun closet that I've had for a long time between the .22 Long Rifle and the .221 Fireball. The 5mm will do this nicely. So, after a 20-year hiatus, the little 5mm lives. And it came to life just in time to enjoy some new treats...not just the Hodgdon Lil Gun, but also the 33-grain .20 V-Max from Hornady. It's been 20 years, but worth the wait.
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Posted by: 17VLD 03/17/2002, 18:06:42 |
I shoot a 5mm mag in a Contender pistol and also helped a friend with a couple Rem rifles convert them to centerfire.
Back then before Lil'Gun we liked 5.0 of AA#5,fun guns are'nt they? Regards Matt |
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Posted by: MikeP 03/18/2002, 16:50:57 |
Matt: The little 5mm Remingtons are fun guns. Although they aren't expensive, they are accurate for such a lightweight design, possessing the fast lock-times seen in its cousins of the .22 Long Rifle breeds...the 541s, 581s, etc...which are said to have some of the fastest lock-times in the industry. The 5mm makes for a fine carry-all-day companion for those shots within 150 yards or so. I live in a pretty wooded area, so long shots are the exception. Although I'd like to use my .221, .222 and .220 Swift more, I often find that I don't need their long-range potential for close-in shots. So, I think the born-again 5mm will get some action on crows around here. I've got an old steel Weaver K-12 on it with parallax marking adjustments down to 50 yards, so it should work OK even for those top-of-the-pine-tree shots. |
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Posted by: Andrew ® 03/19/2002, 04:41:14 Author Profile |
Mike,
Great news about your 591M! I am close to retrieving my 592 and will begin load work starting with AA#9. Glad to hear that your initial experiences were good. Hopefully I'll be right on your heels! ~Andy |
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Posted by: MikeP 03/19/2002, 19:52:25 |
Andy: The AA #9 may be the leading powder for the 5mm Remington centerfire from the sources I've read so far. One 5mm shooter reports around 2600 fps using that powder with a 30-grain Calhoun bullet, but he warns its a really hot load and can act up in hot weather, blowing the occasional primer. He reports great effects on groundhogs up to 175 yards, with accuracy of 0.50 to 0.75 at 100 yards. Not bad from the little gun. I'm not going to load the 5mm to absolute top level possible, since I've got the .221 and other cases that can exceed anything it can do much easier. I see the 5mm as a 2000 to maybe 2400 fps round with bullets from 30 to 40 grains. It can do everything the .22 mag and .17 Hornady rimfires can do, but it can be a lot more flexible because its reloadable. Therefore, in some applications, it should be able to exceed the factory rounds. I'm gonna try the H110 and Lil Gun next, since I've ordered some and they're a bit slower burning than the AA#9, which may be helpful in the 591's 24-inch barrel. I may get around to the AA#9 as well. That's the fun of reloading...so many choices, so little time. Best of luck with yours. |
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Posted by: Andrew ® 03/20/2002, 19:46:50 Author Profile |
Mike,
Again, thanks for the words of encouragement. I too will not be wrestling with the thin air of high speed loadings but plan on concentrating on 36 and 30 grn HP's for my work. The 30 grain at 2300 fps matches the 17HMR drop and drift tables at 200 yards but hits with twice the energy. Ought to make for fun lil'critter shooting. You buddy's 2600 fps experiments sound interesting, though. Might not be a good idea for me. I live in the Desertr and it hit 122-degrees here in the summer. Temperature has to be factored in to every load! I have some Craig-turnrd brass but think I might get some Schroeder brass for the increased strength. I'll have to se how it pans out. Does Schroeder have a website of address?? I'd sure appreciate it. I could actually drive to San Diego to see tha guy from where I live! Good shooting to you.~Andy |
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Posted by: MikeP 03/20/2002, 20:57:24 |
Andy: The last time I spoke to Steve Schroeder, he told me he did not have a web site nor Internet address. His phone numer is 619 423 3523 or 8124. His mail address is 1421 Thermal Ave, San Diego 92154. Concerning your summertime surroundings of 122 degrees, wow! You might be able to hit 2600 fps using a CO2 gun! You're right, we have to be careful of ambient temperatures when loading near the limits. That's one reason why I'd prefer to use less-than-absolute-maximum loads in a gun, and when I need more horsepower, get more iron on the fire (read: larger gun). I don't see any reason to overstress any gun when there are more and bigger ones in the gun closet begging to be let out. Unless, of course, a person only has one gun, in which case it may have to be stressed to the margin when it's asked to do more than the designers had in mind. When you get the 5mm barking, give us a progress report. I think the little 5mm is going to be really fun to shoot. I'll be proving that to myself as the springtime weather and the workload permits. |
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| 17 MACH IV REDUCED LOADS: HOW LOW CAN YOU GO? | | ||
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Posted by: leimbach 03/17/2002, 18:17:24 |
I have read a lot about people using Blue Dot pistol powder for the Mach IV and using small charges to give low velocities. What is the smallest charge anyone has tried and what type of performance did you get? With that little powder in the case was there any problems with ignition and/or inconsistent velocities?
Any input would be great. |
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| Someone must have some ideas | | | |
| Re: 17 MACH IV REDUCED LOADS: HOW LOW CAN YOU GO? -- leimbach | Top of thread | Archive | |
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Posted by: leimbach 03/18/2002, 22:08:27 |
Little help please. |
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| Re: Someone must have some ideas | | ||
| Re: Someone must have some ideas -- leimbach | Top of thread | Archive | |
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Posted by: Kurt Achenbach 03/19/2002, 09:44:55 |
I looked back over the whole board and all I can find is 10 to 10.5 grains of Blue Dot, 20 or 25 grain bullet. At the end of the week I'll be petitioning the minister of finance for the new edition of Sensational Seventeens". Hopefully Dick Saunders still has copies of his manual available. |
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| Cotton or paper cleaning patches? | | | |
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Posted by: Nyle Howsmom 03/17/2002, 23:48:35 |
I use scotts shop towels (paper) for my bore cleaning. They
work great for me. What do you all use? Thanks Nyle |
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| Re: PROSHOT cotton patches for me | | ||
| Re: Cotton or paper cleaning patches? -- Nyle Howsmom | Top of thread | Archive | |
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Posted by: jim saubier 03/18/2002, 11:13:02 |
exclusively in all of my guns. |
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| Re: PROSHOT cotton patches for me | | ||
| Re: Re: PROSHOT cotton patches for me -- jim saubier | Top of thread | Archive | |
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Posted by: MikeP 03/18/2002, 17:21:08 |
Nyle: I'm a scavenger by nature and hate to throw anything away that may be useful some day, which includes about everything except once-used toilet paper. Even I got some pride. For my gun-cleaning patches, I use old bed sheets, along with an old pair of scissors for resizing purposes. A sheet will last me a long time. Unfortunately, I can't use up the sheets fast enought to keep from discarding some of them, but if I ever get to retire, I'm gonna try. |
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| Re: Cotton or paper cleaning patches? | | ||
| Re: Cotton or paper cleaning patches? -- Nyle Howsmom | Top of thread | Archive | |
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Posted by: Doug Rumbaugh ® 03/18/2002, 18:06:21 Author Profile |
For most of my guns I use either Midway or Sinclair patches. For my .17 Remington, the only thing that seems to work are, believe it or not, Hoppes Small Bore patches. It is way to expensive for my tastes but I can't seem to find an alternative that works. The 3/4" square patches from the above companies are too loose and the next step up are too tight. Can anyone recommend a really good .17 caliber patch? Thanks. |
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| Re: Cotton or paper cleaning patches? | | ||
| Re: Re: Cotton or paper cleaning patches? -- Doug Rumbaugh | Top of thread | Archive | |
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Posted by: jerry Smith ® 03/18/2002, 23:10:50 Author Profile |
Haven't worked with 17's in some time but, I used to use 1/2 a que-tip. Seemed to work well. Jerry |
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| I also use the Scott blue Shop Towels. | | ||
| Re: Cotton or paper cleaning patches? -- Nyle Howsmom | Top of thread | Archive | |
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Posted by: Varmint Al ® 03/18/2002, 21:13:42 Author Profile |
I take a towel roll and cut into 1-1/2" wide rolls with a sharp butcher knife. I don't worry about the possibility of the paper in the towels being abrasive. I use the jags that you can wrap the strip of towel around. They really work very well for me. I also use Flitz and JB on some of the tough barrels, but mostly a few passes with Sweets and a couple patches of 50/50 Shooters Choice/Kroil and that is it. Seems to get the barrels squeaky clean. Good Hunting from Varmint Al Good Hunting from... Varmint Al http://www.varmintal.com/ahunt.htm |
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