Posted by: Hubie
03/26/2002, 08:45:01
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Just thought folks might be interested in my experience with a Shilen .17 cal bbl. A while back, I built a .17 Ackely Bee on a Martini action, using a Shilen tube. At first, I was not very happy with this rifle. It fouled badly, had to clean after about 5 rounds. (This was after their recommended break-in procedure.) Consequently, the little rifle did not get a lot of use. I would take it out occasionally, and shoot a few rounds, testing various loads, but basically didn't fool with it much. Last weekend, one of the grandkids was up and we went to the range. I had about 40 rounds of a load that did not shoot very well made up, (I don't know why I loaded that many!) so I took the little rifle along and told grandson to burn 'em up. After getting back home, to my great surprise, the bbl cleaned up with only half a dozen or so patches! Maybe this thing is finally "broke in", I've got to get back to it! 
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Posted by: jim saubier
03/27/2002, 08:12:21
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SOmetimes it takes longer for a barrel to break-in/season than others. And maybe it needed a longer string of shots like you fired. Hope you get an accurate load worked up for it. What was the load that you are using? I found my best success with R7 and n130 in my Hebee.
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Posted by: Hubie
03/29/2002, 08:58:37
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Loads were 13gr 4198, 25gr Hornady. I did some testing, yesterday in fact, with RE7. Just some function/pressure tests, no range work. I'm going to try some at the range, today hopefully, in the 12.7gr range with a 20gr Vmax. I'll probably try 4198 with the 20gr Vmax also. Devlopment work with this little rifle has been a painful/slow process. At first, I had all kinds of problems with split necks. However, I seem to have solved this by annealing after forming. I didn't lose any of this last batch of 50 cases to split necks. Still working on getting a consistent case lenth. For these next round of tests, I've only partially resized the cases, down to about 3/4's of the neck. (Thats the reason for the function testing yesterday, making sure they would feed ok!)
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| First time post here,..need some help with 22 Cheetah |
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Posted by: SunRa
03/26/2002, 14:50:51
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Hello,....this is my first time post here, and I am looking for any possible help or resources for the 22 Cheetah Mk1. I just picked up a rechambered savage 12bvss at a gun show, and had a very bad first experience at the range. Tumbling bullets, bullets spraying all over ground and target (or lack of target!) I see this as a grudge match now, I can and WILL make this gun shoot, (one way or another) Obviously I will start at the ground and work my way up with loads,..but worst fear is that barrel could be shot out, how can I really tell that myself? My main concern is with the barrel twist and bullet weights at higer velocites. The original stamp on the barrel says .223. If I am not mistaken this has a fast twist (1-9") The loads I was shooting were with 55 gr vmax's. In my head I was thinking that the erratic shots could be explained by the lighter bullets not stabilizing at velocities over 4000fps with the fast twist. Im totally scratching my head, and the weather here in Ohio wont allow me to go to the range just yet, any info you fellas could share would help ease my mind. SunRa
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Posted by: JD ®
03/26/2002, 20:27:33
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First off, clean the crap out of it, get the barrel to spit out white patches I think the cheetah is close to the 22-250 or swift
so start with new formed brass with a middle of the scale load also if it is 9 twist and the bullets are over 3400 then step up to 60 or 69 gr bullets JD
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Posted by: Chucker ®
03/27/2002, 15:51:40
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I have built two rifles with this caliber and have shot out both barrels. The conditions you are expressing are the probable effect of the throat of the rifle being shot out or worn to a point it is disrupting bullets to the extent they will not hit the target or they are blowing up mid air.
The most I could expect was about 700 rounds before things started to go bad.
Give the bore a GOOD cleaning and see what happens.
If you are still having problems inspect the throat of the barrel and see if its worn out. Probably is.
Your friend, Chucker.
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Posted by: Lee in OH ®
03/27/2002, 18:42:53
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I see you found another site!!!!!! Good one here. LOTS of info on .17's. Did you get a lot of fouling in the barrel???? Visit my homepage at....
http://www.geocities.com/hogshooter_2000/
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Posted by: hunter_19_54
03/26/2002, 15:09:09
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I have a Cooper Mod 38 in 17 AH, I am not very happy with. Sent it back to Cooper & they use powder that we can not get for testing.It only shoots about 1" groups & you dont know where that 1" is. Does anybody know a good gunsmith that would rechamber this gun in a tight chamber.Love the 17 AH but this one just doesnt shoot. I am in Okla & folks down here dont shoot little guns like this. Thanks for your help Ron
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Posted by: SunRa
03/26/2002, 17:01:02
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I cant believe that a coop would shoot like that,.lemme know what load data you gave you
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Posted by: JD ®
03/26/2002, 20:14:11
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it is shooting an inch and walking around the target change your scope then rings and base also check make sure they are tight with it walking it sound like it is not the gun but the sights But if not send it back, I friend of mine had to send back his Hebee and it is shooting like a cooper should now JD
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Posted by: Mark D
03/26/2002, 20:48:37
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Do you want to sell the rifle , I might be interested ! Thanks! Mark
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Posted by: BROOKS
03/27/2002, 08:51:24
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Watch this Mark guy, he has a way with the 17 AH, I know, I got one from him.
Brooks
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Posted by: Tom Brush
03/28/2002, 18:31:08
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I have a new M38 Cooper .17AH too. It shoots everything under 1/2". Even fireforming loads. Cooper is now using an undersized reamer that solves the problem with brass being manufactured undersized from specs. Cases life is good. I agree with checking the scope and mounts. It should shoot better.
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Posted by: hunter_19_54
03/28/2002, 23:46:16
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How old is your Cooper & what loads are you shooting in it. I have tried several loads with no luck.You can E-Mail me at hunter_19_54@yahoo.com thanks for your help Ron
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Posted by: Tom Brush
03/31/2002, 08:53:45
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Ron: I sent you an e-mail this morning. I have had my Cooper M38 .17 AH since February. I use 10.5 gr. of H4227 and the 25 gr. Hornady to fireform. I have lost no cases with this load. I have tried two hunting loads. The first is 12.5 gr. of AA1680 with the 20 gr. Hornady V-Max bullet. Primer is Remingon 7 1/2. This load will shoot under 1/2" at 100 yds. I believe that it is max. for my rifle. In warmer weather I may have to reduce it. Velocity is 3800 fps. The second is 10.0 of Lil-Gun with the 20 gr. V-Max and the 7 1/2 Remington primer. This groups around .300 at 100 yds. Bolt lift was a little stickey with 10.0 gr. I would not go above 9.8 gr. with my rifle especially when it gets warmer. Velocity is 3700 fps. with 10.0 gr. All of the above loads are safe in my rifle. Reduce the charges and work up. The factory gave me 1.395 for the trim length. I trim after fireforming. I see that you are having case problems. Go to Varmint Al's site for instructions on forming .17 AH cases. Anealing the cases before firing is very important to prevent splits. Hope this helps. Tom
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| Yet another bizarre wildcat to consider! |
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Posted by: Doug Rumbaugh ®
03/26/2002, 17:14:51
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Ok, I found another strange case (at least to me) that I want to find out if anyone has comments on. The 7x33 Sako case looks pretty much like a 17 Mach IV but a little wider. The length dimensions are about the same as the Mach IV but since it is wider I would guess it has a powder capacity between the Mach IV and the .17 Remington; maybe 20 grains. Since short and fat appears to be in for BR and everyone says a .17 PPC is "overbore", what about using that case to make a .17. The only brass I have seen for it is Beltram. I really want to find a BR quality .17 cartridge. Any comments on this case or Beltram brass in general? Thanks.
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Posted by: Coyote Slayer ®
03/26/2002, 19:53:02
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HI Doug
could that case be the same as the mach 3 case I am not sure just asking as far as bench quality I am sure there are a few good ones the ppc for sure is a good one but all of a sudden the 6 284 has hit the scene and it is a winning case same with the 6.5 I still beleave a lot of the old bad fouling storys and this and that about the 17 is still out there and still yet there is the group that anything over the 17 rem or mach 4 is an overbore case. I just got the packege from ben with the 17-225 Info and a loaded and formed round it is a preaty nifty case he also sent me a pea we case too.I bleave that the old 17-222mag would work for bench rest shooting is it a 1000 yard rifle no but at onehundred and twohundred yards it is a real challange to the larger rifles now I will hear all the naysayers who talk about wind and this and that it is a proven fact that in the same wind bouth the 22 and 17 are about the same this round has come a long way from its start Have a great nite all: Coyote Slayer Eat Moose 20,000 wolves can't be wrong
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Posted by: jim saubier
03/27/2002, 12:58:32
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I think that you'd be hard pressed to beat the Mach IV or Javelina as far as case capacity goes. I am hoping that the Javelina will be ideal for the 30 grain bullets - which is why I chose this case. I don't think that the Mach IV will have enough snot to push the 30 grain bullets to appropriate speeds. I had a short barrel Mach IV and the 25 grain bullets would go 3800 fps. I could push the 20 grain bullets to 4,000 fps. With the Javelina, I hope to push the 30's at 3800 fps. I am not familiar with the case that you mention but can say that the proportions of the PPC case are fat when compared to the 6mm size bullets. The .17 with a .222 case is still fat considering the smaller diameter of the bullet. I do understand the inherent accuracy potentials of the PPC as I shoot them in matches, but I think just as important is a quality barrel, good brass prepared properly, appropriate powder, and good bullets.
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Posted by: Doug Rumbaugh ®
03/27/2002, 16:26:01
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The only reloading manual I have found with the 7x33 Sako in is the VihtaVouri manual but I thought, if short and fat was the key, and the PPC is "overbore" this case might be just the thing. I also am under the impression that MachIV/221 Fireball cases are not very good quality unless you form them from good 222 or 223 cases (Maybe I am incorrect here). Assuming someone wants really good brass without case forming and a little more powder capacity than the Mach IV, this case (assuming the Sako brass is good) might be the ticket. It is all a moot point for me because I can't find any brass except Bertram and I don't know how good their brass is. The Sako brass is not to be found. Another downside is the .393 brass would require a different bolt face which is not shared by any other rifle I can find. Using a .390 bolt face for 222/223 cases alows you a lot of flexibility if you want to change chamberings.
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Posted by: jim saubier
03/28/2002, 07:44:13
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I think that you'll find if the difference is actually only .003", than this case would work in any bolt designed for a .223 or .222 etc. There is more room for error in the bolt face than .003". If not, it would be a no brainer to open up the bolt face a tiny bit to accomodate the bigger case. And the same bolt face would accomodate the .223 cases as well. My current BR gun can use either .308 based cases or PPC based cases, and they aren't nearly as close in size as the cases you mention.
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Posted by: AKI ®
04/04/2002, 08:45:18
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My 7x33 case heads are .017 larger than the 222. The 7x33 is a lengthened 9mm Luger case. On some finnish sites they list cases for over 1 euro each. Don´t know if they actually have any. Got 400 myself by buying loaded 7x33 (for my 7x33 Sako) before the italians (Beretta) increased the price to this unbelivable level. Have been thinking about a 17x33 myself for some time now. Necking down from 7mm to 17 would require some work, though. AKI
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