May 09, 2002

What ya' looking to use it for?? There is quite a difference in recoil and noise between the two, the Tac 20 being considerably more powerful. Case forming takes one less form die for the 20. Both are great cartridges, but fill different niches, at least for me.

My 17 Mach IV is also a Cooper, and I use it for prairie dogs. My 20 is a coyote gun, and in my opinion too much cartridge for a sustained fire type of hunting........In reality the Mach IV will probably cover 95% of your varminting needs whatever they may be. You will LOVE it!

Dan C

Re: Big difference..........
Re: Big difference.......... -- Dan C		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Phil Maxwell ^Ž
05/09/2002, 16:09:44

I would use it for ground squirrels, prairie dogs, and for coyote calling. I agree with you that the Mach IV would be great 95% of the time - it is that occasional coyote at 4-5 hundred yards that i would like to reach out for. I guess what i am looking for is that one,all purpose, gun to keep in the truck, that would fill the bill.

Is the recoil of the Tact .20 enough to make spotting your shots impossible. Another idea I had was to reduce loads of the .20 to the .17's level for ground squirrels, etc. at close ranges, but have some bigger loads on hand for the long stuff.

Thanks for your imput-would love to hear more!
Phil Maxwell

Re: Big difference..........
Re: Re: Big difference.......... -- Phil Maxwell		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Dan Golding ^Ž
05/11/2002, 13:45:31

Phil - Just got a Tac 20 barrel for my Encore this past winter.
Perhaps I'm not one to reply here as my experience with the
17's is nil. Compared to a .50 ML, 25/06, 22/250, .223, the
recoil on the Tac 20 is so light that it is entirely possible
and quite easy to keep the scope on target with this heavy
barrel. The accuracy of the little 33gr VMax is very surprising
and I would trade it for NOTHING! It's quite possible you
would love either caliber and the 17's do have an advantage
in bullet selection, but I don't believe you would be a bit
disappointed in the Tac 20's performance, at either end of the
rifle.

Re: Big difference..........
Re: Re: Big difference.......... -- Dan Golding		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Alex M. Clarke ^Ž
05/16/2002, 23:22:10

Phil: I have both, as well as a 17 Remington, in comparable weight rifles (Cooper Varminters). There is no trouble at all to see hits with even lightweight 17M4's (original Cooper Classic, with 20 inch barrel weighing 6.5 lbs all up). With a heavier rifle, it is getting tough to see hits with the 17 Remington, and we are into the "high intensity" cartridge level.
The Tac 20 outperforms the 17 Rem at 300 yards, BUT bullet selection is poor (however the 33 gr Hornady VMax .20 does shoot great), and dependant on Hornady. The Berger 36 gr .20 cal bullet has a very poor BC, and does not perform at the same level. Clint Starke says he is NOT going to make 20's, unless we can find 50,000 bullets worth of 20 cal buyers, and even then they will be expensive, since there is a jacket problem that is expensive to solve. The added grain or two of powder and 3 to 8 grains of bullet weight in the 20 over the 17 adds considerable recoil to the Tac 20.

The 17M4, however is one super round. It is the 223 of the 17's (with the 17 Rem being the 22-250). It is even BETTER than the 223, however, as with approximately 18 grains of powder (down another 6 grains from the 17 Rem) the recoil lets you see groundhog hits with ease.

All that said, however, right now there is a 17 Rem riding "shotgun" in my pickup and a 17 AH in my "back and forth to work" car. These, a Kimber 84M in 22-250, a 17M4 little Cooper "old" Classic, and a Cooper 223 AI have been rotating through my vehicles for the past two months, with a 223 or the 20 Tac sometimes coming along.

Right now, if I were you, I'd get a 17M4. When the dust settles on bullet availablity for the 20's, I'd dive in. You're gonna end up with both (and more) anyhow.

Go for the Cooper "Classic" in it's new configuration. It's a much better "carry" gun, and still shoots fine off the bags.

Alex

Modified by Alex M. Clarke at Thu, May 16, 2002, 23:22:34