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Posted by: Tom Oddo ®
05/11/2002, 03:51:24
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I live on the North Coast in Ohio and want to visit them. Need their addy or directions. I dont trust computer generated maps. Will be coming from Rt2. Thanks, OD
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Posted by: Barry Thomas ®
05/11/2002, 11:26:10
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What kind of powder is best for the K and how far out would you go on coyote sized game? Also what size bullet? Thanks.
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Posted by: Matt Smith
05/11/2002, 12:01:16
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Lil'Gun and 42 grn Calhoons work great in my "k"
3200fps with no pressure.Its a fun gun and thats the best kind!
Regards
Matt
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Posted by: foxhunterbubba
05/11/2002, 12:37:53
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you should limit your range on coyotes to probably 100-125 yds for reliable kills. coyotes can be mighty tuff critters to put down and keep down. bullit placement is critical, a bad shot will send old wylie in to get well whirles. thats when he spins around in a circle about 4 times then strieghtens up and heds for the next county at mach 3. here are a few loads try them with caution,
12.1 lil gun cci 500 primers 35 gr vmax @ 3265 fps
12.6 lil gun cci 500 primers 35 gr vmax @ 3300 fps
13.0 lil gun cci 500 primers 35 gr vmax @ 3377 fps
14.0 w680 cci 500 primers 35 gr vmax @ 3196 fps
13.5 ww296 7 1/2 rp 35 gr vmax @ 3421 fps
13.9 ww296 7 1/2 rp 35 gr vmax @ 3471 fps these loads were safe in my gun, don't try them in a winchester model 43 as they are not safe( action is to soft) shoot strieght bob
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Posted by: Barry Thomas ®
05/12/2002, 00:02:11
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Foxhunterbubba,
Thanks for the info guys. Foxhunter what was you most accurrate load out of all that. Thanks Barry.
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Posted by: foxhunterbubba
05/12/2002, 01:53:02
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all the loads were .75 or less, the most accurate load was 14 gr w680 with 35 gr vmax at 3200 fps.i used this gun to kill 18 foxes in just over 1.5 hours. phunt has a fox hunting video of mine which i'm shure he would be glad to pass along to whoever wants to see it. just keep it circulating on the forum, so far it has gone to jim, jd and paul. bob
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| jackrabbit at 310 yds with 218 bee |
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Posted by: foxhunterbubba
05/11/2002, 12:48:19
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went jack rabbit hunting yesterday shot 8 jacks in an hour and a half. the longest shot was at 310 yds one shot wit my ruger one in 218 bee.
bob
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Posted by: Cook
05/11/2002, 12:56:12
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Bob, I'v been doing my homework since you posted the initial velocities you were getting with your B. Couldn't find the Mashburn Bee in Howell's book to see the difference in case capacity between your B and the Mashburn but looking at Ackley's book I should be able to gain 5 to 10% more powder space. Nearly convince that I am going to go with the Mashburn when I rebarrel my HeBee after my next trip to SD. The 17 HeBee shot great but the barrell is fouling badly after only 10-20 shots. Finally found the CZ Prestige in Hornet that I have been looking for. CZ is making a large shipment to the states and it should include some of those. Was going to go with a K Hornet, but with the velocity of Lil Gun I am going to keep it a straight up Hornet.
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Posted by: Cook
05/11/2002, 13:02:44
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Dang it Bob, I just read the next post and the velocity you were getting with you K Hornet. Now it leads the CZ 527 Hornet concept by a nose. Bill.
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Posted by: foxhunterbubba
05/11/2002, 19:21:18
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what i found realy interesting was the gun was a 26 in ruger so we cut it to 20 and lost no velocity.
bob
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Posted by: Cook
05/11/2002, 22:53:08
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My Ruger 1B in HeBee has a 24" barrell and I was suprised at the velocity I was getting with 20 grain V Max. It shot its best in the 4,075+ range and the brass was holding up great. I've got over 2000 rounds through it and I can't remember any pressure signs with the Primers or extraction. Thinking that chambering it to 218 Mashburn should give me an honest 3,700 fps with 40 grain VMax and barrell life should be indefinite (or so we all like to hope). That Ruger action and the Canjar trigger I have on it is a blast to shoot in the dog towns. I often take first timers with me on dog shoots and that is the rifle of choice.
Bill.
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Posted by: foxhunterbubba
05/12/2002, 01:42:27
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bill, my 218 bee will give a maximum of 3600 fps with a 40 gr bullit, anything above that started to open up the primer pockets. i do think the 36 gr starkes would probably give you what you want or maybe a 218 mashburn bee. bob
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Posted by: jim saubier
05/13/2002, 10:38:49
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I have a bunch of the .22 Remington Jet brass and often wonder why it wouldn't be a good case to improve and use in a single shot. The cases seem very strong and would give a little more capacity than the mashburn bee improved. I also think that the cases would be very strong. I have a 17 Jet that I haven't found much time to tinker with in quite some time. At the time when I was playing around with it, I purchased 700 pieces of brass. The price of it is very cheap - 13.00 / 100. Of course a reamer would have to be purchased.
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| Hey Jim, nice job on the 30 BR article |
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Posted by: Cook
05/11/2002, 13:01:02
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Great job on the PS article Jim! It read great, smooth to the last word. But what in the world is a "Score Match"?(Just kidding).
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Posted by: jim saubier
05/13/2002, 08:46:51
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Thanks Bill. I'll likely shoot the .30BR in more group matches also. It shoots as well as my PPC's have, with the disadvantage being recoil. I just started shooting Hunter class this past weekend and that is the definition of recoil. I did well with the HBR for my first time out and I look forward to shooting it more. Glad you enjoyed the article.
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Posted by: Al Nyhus ®
05/14/2002, 21:17:18
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Yep...these .30 cal. HBR guns can be a handful, can't they?
The ability to keep gun handling mistakes to a minimum over a full days shooting (100 and 200 yd. Aggs.) is no small challenge. I absolutely LOVE shooting the HBR guns, and once you learn to accept the recoil rather than fighting it, the recoil becomes a very good measure of how well you got the shot off. When you make a gun handling mistake with one of these, you know it real quickly! ;) -Al.
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Posted by: jim saubier
05/15/2002, 09:40:12
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You are correct indeed. Took me all day long at 200 yards to shoot an 8, but I managed to do it on the last target of the day. Was 3rd going into last match, and dropped 4 pts and slid me down to 6th place. I shot a 248 - 15x at 100 yards and a 242- 3x at 200 yards. Did manage to win the 2 gun though. I believe that I am hooked on the HBR game - the 6x scope is quite a challenge but I enjoyed it.
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Posted by: Al Nyhus ®
05/15/2002, 18:23:30
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The Grand Agg. is what it's all about. In HBR, 200 yds. is where the pancakes get put put on the table. With these .30's and 6X scopes, the gun's accuracy at 200 yds. is critical. Hold off at 200 can be tough with a 6X scope, and if the guns tuneup at 200 isn't good you'll shoot a bunch of vertical and tear your hair oput trying to get a handle on what 'condition' it is that's giving this to you. What happens next is that you end up correcting for a non-existant 'condition' and pretty soon...BINGO! ....you get bitten. I'm no expert, but I really suggest doing you do load work at 200, once you've established a good 100 yd. load. The wind deflection on these .30's is not as bad as people think, but add a 6X scope into the equaltion and I have a lot of trouble. Good shooting, Jim! -Al.
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Posted by: jim saubier
05/16/2002, 08:02:55
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I'll have a hard time blaming it on the gun. This gun shoots very well. I put 3 shots into 1 ragged at 200 yards on the sighter. I couldn't believe that I could do that with a 6x scope. As far as hold off goes, I have some work to do before I'll feel comfortable with the hold-off at 100 or 200 yards. I have one of the new Burris HBRII scopes, and it is terrific. Clear and tracks well. I am building a HBR gun and bought this one because I was getting impatient. I bought it off the net, sight unseen at a terrific price. I was very pleasantly surprised to see how well it shot.
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Posted by: Barry Thomas ®
05/11/2002, 13:11:36
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Just got on the Calhoon web sight and saw the 19,anybody have any experiance with this cal? He makes a CZ for $825,doen't sound bad,I know those are preety nice guns.Also what about his bullets? Thanks
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Posted by: Dan C ®
05/11/2002, 18:49:01
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Very cool outfit Barry. I've been shooting the little 19 Calhoon for a couple three years now, mine is built on a Browning Micro Medallion. It's an accurate, deadly rig. The 19 hits prairie dogs much harder than the 17 Ackley Hornet, and you have the option of a wide range of bullet weights. I usually shoot the 27's, but have on occasion shot the 36's and 40's for those tough quartering shots on bull prairie dogs.....LOL! His bullets are of double hollow point construction, which means they have an opening in the core also. The coating is a zinc plating and does seem to keep fouling down. They are little bombs. I can highly recommend both James and his unique 19 caliber stuff..... Dan C 
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Posted by: foxhunterbubba
05/11/2002, 19:17:18
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exactly how long is that barrel any way,or is it the way you took the picture that makes it look so long?
bob
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Posted by: Dan C ®
05/11/2002, 19:21:34
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Thanks, that picture DOES make the barrel look long. Would you believe 23 inches?? The Brownings have extra-short forends which is what makes the barrel look so long..... Dan C
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Posted by: foxhunterbubba
05/11/2002, 20:05:10
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dan it looks a lot like my 17 ah ruger exacept i taped the barrel with camo tape for calling. bob
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Posted by: Dane F. Schell ®
05/13/2002, 09:00:47
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Barry,
I have ordered the rebarrel kit for the Ruger VHZ in 19 Calhoon, the Gunsmith has both the rifle and the PAC-Nor barrel. I'm looking forward to getting everything back to start forming brass and breaking in the new barrel. In my opinion it would be very hard to find better people to work with all my orders from Calhoon have been extremely prompt.
Dane
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Posted by: Dan Golding ®
05/14/2002, 23:18:56
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Does James Calhoon have an email address? Sure wish he would
get into the .204 calibers!
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Posted by: Stan in Ar
05/17/2002, 14:20:25
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I haven't talked to him about .204, but I suspect he probably wishes they would go away. Talk to James let him talk you into a 19-223 or 19 Calhoon. 
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Posted by: Stan in Ar
05/17/2002, 14:20:44
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I haven't talked to him about .204, but I suspect he probably wishes they would go away. Talk to James let him talk you into a 19-223 or 19 Calhoon.
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| forming 17 AH cases from 22 Hnt....... |
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Posted by: alan in ga
05/11/2002, 13:24:47
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just for the record,,I have been told I had to have a form die, and I have been told I do NOT have to have one. Here is what I HAVE done: with Imperial size wax, the full length die worked just fine-17AHs with one easy pass. Just no shoulders yet until fireforming.
I offer this with only a half dozen cases done in the FL die, maybe lots more brass would tell a different story?
The 17AH has become my favorite varmint rifle,,,but friends are gathering 17 barrel blanks as I speak for the Mach IV reamer in our midst. Could it be the 17AH is only a temporary toy? I have had zero problems with hornet cases so far. I have only loaded about 80 tho. alan in ga.
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Posted by: Dan C ®
05/11/2002, 19:19:12
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Alan, sure it CAN be done, but you will see the results down the road in reduced case life. 22 to 17 cal is a big jump to take in one step. It stresses the brass more than a couple gradual steps does. I used to start with the form die, then the seater, then FL size. I've since eliminated the second step with no apparent harm. Let me state that I have never actually lost a case from forming in one step either.....it may work out good for you. My feeling is that if you have the form die in hand anyway, the extra step doesn't take very long. Last year, I sold a Cooper 17 AH to a friend. He picked up a set of CH4D form and loading dies, and proceeded to form and load 1000 rounds on his Dillon progressive. To his utter dismay, he found that 2 out of 3 were splitting the necks on firing. This was brand new WW brass too. I checked out his dies and the only thing I could figure out was that he had a batch of brass that was a tad harder than normal. I never, ever, split a neck with that rifle! Weird........ Dan C
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Posted by: Varmint Al ®
05/12/2002, 13:12:21
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Here are the steps I am using. 1. Neck turn nearly to the shoulder
2. Resize in 22 Hornet die
3. Neck size in 17 Ackley Hornet Form die
4. Neck size in 17 Ackley Hornet Trim die
5. Anneal and then FL size in 17 Ackley Hornet die
*. I don’t show a case after the fire form load
6. 17 Ackley Hornet -- 20 gr. Berger MEF Moly Note, I have switched to the Hornady 20 gr V-Max moly coated with the pill bottle method. On each forming operation the radial force is lower forming to just a slightly smalled diameter. That also reduces the axial force. With forming the necks, if one step is used from 22 to 17, the axial force is much higher and also axially compresses the necks as well as reducing the diameter. They turn out shorter. There is already a large gap between the end of the case neck and the end of the neck in the chamber. I like to keep this gap to a minimum. Good 17's from Varmint Al  Good Hunting from... Varmint Al
http://www.varmintal.com/ahunt.htm
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Posted by: Dan C ®
05/12/2002, 15:28:42
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In forming 17 Mach IV cases, if I skip a step they end up being as much as .018" shorter than if I run them through all the forming steps. My Cooper chamber has such a long neck, I eventually ended up making my cases out of .223 brass to fill this long dead space..... Dan C
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Posted by: phil imamura ®
05/13/2002, 10:34:00
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When you form your 17 Mach IV casings from .223, do you do any inside neck reaming?
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Posted by: Dan C ®
05/13/2002, 10:57:45
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Phil, I outside turn only. Works fine, but you have to make sure to cut slightly into the shoulder so you don't end up with a doughnut.........It helps to turn a neck, then section the case to see exactly how deep you're cutting. Hope this helps. I only made up 125 cases for my Mach IV, and I'm not really looking forward to the day they have to be replaced! Dan C
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Posted by: phil imamura ®
05/13/2002, 10:34:52
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When you form your 17 Mach IV casings from .223, do you do any inside neck reaming?
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Posted by: Barry Thomas ®
05/14/2002, 00:28:11
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When you turn the necks are you just cleaning them up, I know hornet brass is thin to begin with? Also I have seen the heads that go on the torch that are round to anneal where do you get them? Thanks.
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Posted by: jim saubier
05/14/2002, 07:50:18
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Woodchuck Den. See banner at top of forum. I have one and it works well.
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Posted by: Barry Thomas ®
05/14/2002, 00:29:00
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When you turn the necks are you just cleaning them up, I know hornet brass is thin to begin with? Also I have seen the heads that go on the torch that are round to anneal where do you get them? Thanks.
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Posted by: Varmint Al ®
05/15/2002, 20:58:24
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NECK TURNING FOR FACTORY CHAMBERED RIFLES.... Here is how I adjust the neck turning tool for my factory-chambered rifles that usually have a sloppy 0.010 inches of neck clearance. I pick out 10 new cases at random. Then, as I always do even with new cases, neck size them, including the expander plug, so the neck will be round and tight on the neck turning mandrel. I also lightly chamfer the ID and OD of the neck mouth to remove the "rolled over edge" from case polishing. The mandrel needs to turn hard inside the case neck even when there is no cutting action. A tight fitting mandrel is the only way you can really make accurate cuts. I adjust the depth of cut so it barely cuts any material and then go through all 10 cases. Usually, there will be one or two cases that clean up practically all the way around and a few that cut heavily only on one side. I increase the depth of the cut a slight amount and go through the 10 cases again. I continue this process until about 75% of the cases cleanup about 80% to 90% of the neck outside surface. Caution: Do not set your neck turning tool so it makes a clean cut on all of the cases, because it will make the necks too thin and you will have ruined all of the cases. Therefore, with the correct setting, it means I will reject 2 or 3 out of 10 cases to the bone pile. I have found that Winchester brass usually has thicker necks than Remington brass and appear to last longer. I keep that setting on the neck turning tool and turn all the cases in that lot of brass. No more neck turning is required for the life of these cases even after they are formed into the 17 Ackley Hornet. Good Hunting from... Varmint Al
http://www.varmintal.com/ahunt.htm
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Posted by: alan in ga
05/13/2002, 10:47:08
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I have had shoulders split on fireforming loads for Ackelys, (250 Ackley)when I used to light a load. Like 'ol PO said,,'use a snappy charge of fairly to medium fast powder for fireforming loads. I never had a split in the 250 after loading with 4320 to what was the equivalent of full loads for the standard case or maybe a grain lower. Thanks guys for the 17AH brass form advise. Montana, here I come. alan in ga.
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Posted by: Chucker ®
05/13/2002, 14:02:03
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Buy the form die from redding for the 17 Mach IV it will work for both calibers and you will have saved a little money if you decide to go the Mach IV route one day, My 2 cents.
Chucker.
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Posted by: Dan C ®
05/13/2002, 15:32:22
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and it should work fine. Once you accumulate a few form dies, you can make dang near anything you want with a little imagination. For example, I have a Redding type S neck bushing die for the 221 Fireball. Using the appropriate bushing and decapping stem, I use it for the 17 Mach IV, 17 Javelina, 19 FBI, 19-223, 20 Tactical, and of course 221 Fireball. Works great and saves bucks. Dan C
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