Posted by: Coyote Slayer ®
01/23/2002, 23:54:12
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I have used them on bouth Wolves and Coyotes with out any problems they knock a wolf off his feet out to about 300 to 400 yards and the same with coyotes I use them in a 17 VLR one great round that has been lost in all the hipe with the 20s well i hope this helps:Coyote Slayer Eat Moose 20,000 wolves can't be wrong
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Posted by: Dan C ®
01/25/2002, 10:42:12
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The 17 VLR was developed by Todd Kindler primarily to shoot the Berger VLD 37 gr. bullet. It is simply a 223 case necked to 17 with the shoulder pushed back slightly to form the 30 degree angle and increase the neck length. It is almost identical to the 20 Tactical if you are familiar with that one. Dan C
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Posted by: Doug Rumbaugh ®
01/25/2002, 19:46:32
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Thanks for the input. Although I have a .17 Remington and have read a bunch of old wildcat articles on the .17, I am not fluent in these little guys and know nothing about the .20s. I actually called and talked to Todd based on a referal about the 37 grain VLDs. I was considering making a wildcat by necking the RWS 5.6x50 Magnum down to .17. That would essentially be a .17 Remington Magnum since the case would be about as much larger than the .17 Remington as it is larger than the .17-222. Anyway, he basically said it would be a waste of case because the 37 grain VLD can be maxed out by his .17-223 wildcat. The bullet won't hold together at the higher velocities that the .17 Remington Magnum (my name) would generate. I think it would have a similar capacity to the .17 PPC but would work with an existing .17 Remington bolt face and action. I may build one anyway and see how fast I can push the 29 and 30 grain bullets. I would use a 1 in 9 twist instead of the 1 in 7 I was originally considering and it appears the magazine in my .17 Remington could handle the longer cartridge. There is, however, a little matter of having to have a custom reamer and custom dies made for a wildcat that I have never seen a reference for. I can't imagine no one has tried it but I can't find any information on it. If it were a total flop, the joke (and expense) would be on me.
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Posted by: Dan C ®
01/25/2002, 21:32:44
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Doug, coincidentally I just developed a 17 on the 223 case called the 17 Predator. Todd is right about the Berger 37, it is just too finicky to get to shoot with any kind of speed, much better to stick with the 29-30 grain slugs. You are on the right track! My new 17 is an improved case that is designed to get as much capacity as practical out of the 223 case, yet still feed reliably through a 700 action. The case holds 3.8 grains more water than the 17 Remington, and is very close to the 17 PPC in capacity. I have a 9 twist Lilja barrel ordered along with the reamer and other parts and expect to have it done in a few months. I plan on shooting Kindler 29's exclusively, and expect 4000-4100 fps. I understand Todd has designed a similar cartridge called the 17 Tactical. It is pretty close to mine, but I have a slightly larger shoulder diameter and longer body/shorter neck. In fact, Todd's is a reincarnation of the 17 VLR! Here is a pic of the 17 Predator next to a 17 Rem.........mail me if you would like to discuss this more! Dan C 
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Posted by: Coyote Slayer ®
01/25/2002, 22:00:14
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I went with a shillen 28 inch barrel and it has a 1 in 9 twist I did not like the idea of being stuck with only one bullet just in case they droped it from there line. As i said i really liked todds 29grs they took seven wolves the largest was 8foot 6 inches and went 117lbs and was a two year old and i took him at 400 yards I liked the 17Rem but on big wolves some times you needed to shoot them again with the VLR that has not happened I liked it so much i rechambered my other 17 rem for it also if you need any info please feal free to E mail me this is when i work the moast and i am home on R&R right now and will be gone again till the end of april the end of next week Have a great night: Coyote Slayer Eat Moose 20,000 wolves can't be wrong
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Posted by: Dan C ®
01/25/2002, 22:40:02
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What kind of speeds are you getting with the 29's, and what powders have you tried? I'm planning on testing Vihtavuori N-550 first and go from there. Wolves huh, that has to be a kick! And with a 17 too............... Dan C
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Posted by: Coyote Slayer ®
01/26/2002, 01:29:30
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I have tried Varget,Benchmark and AA2700, Benchmark by far is the cleanest and works well here where temps can go from the high 80 in summer to 60 bleow in the winter and it metters well,I have real good luck with AA 2700 also but it is hard to find here in Alaska. the loads I have come up with are 23gr of Benchmark and got 4000Fps twenty three Gr is on the high side Please be careful and work up for your owen rifle I would start at 21Gr and work up from there with Benchmark.I have used bouth the 30 gr burger and the 29grBT from the wood chuck den with AA 2700 I like 26.0gr with the 30 gr burger and a 29gr boattail it gives me about 3850 fps the 29 is a bit faster again please start from a lesser charge and work up. When i went with the VLR there was no loads for the 27, 28, 29 and 30 gr bullets so it was a lot of testing to get the right load for my rifle and the proof was in the one shot kills on wolves I talked to todd about the problem i had with the 17 Rem and we talked about the VLR I liked the look of the round as I owen a 224 Clark and it looked to me to be the little brother to the Clark well i hope this helps Have a great weekend. Coyote Slayer Eat Moose 20,000 wolves can't be wrong
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Posted by: Mark D
01/25/2002, 23:10:56
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Hey guys those 17's sound pretty neat! I finally recieved the 29gr Tod Kindler bullets and tried them out on a few coyotes they worked great . I shot one 39 lb coyote at about 200 yards , he dropped quick . My rifle is a 17 BR , the parent brass is 6BR , barrel is a PAC NOR 1 & 9 twist , 700 BDL action . It is the most fun gun that I have shot beside my 17AH . The velocity is 4100 fps with 29.5 grains of VV550 . I have not tried any loads much with this rifle # 2 , the VV550 seems to be very accurate with no signs of pressure . I use the Norma brass , the Lapua fits to tight in my chamber , I wish I had known that ther was a difference in brass , I would have made the reamer match . I had to change the Mag follower to get it to feed the BR cases , it seems to feed just fine now . Thanks! Mark
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Posted by: foxhunterbubba
01/27/2002, 18:55:21
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you didn't say what type of gun you redid the follower on . the reason i ask is i have a22 br that could be better feeding.
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Posted by: foxhunterbubba
01/27/2002, 18:56:38
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you didn't say what type of gun you redid the follower on . the reason i ask is i have a22 br that could be better feeding.
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Posted by: Mark D
01/27/2002, 21:19:51
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Sorry about that , The rifle is a 700 REM SA , I epoxyed a small bolt face mag. spacer to the back of the mag box . Then I replaced the follower with a small bolt face follower . The right way would have been to trim the old follower at the back and polish it . It works fine now so I'am going to leave it alone ! Hope this helps ! Mark
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