20 Killer Bee
 

Hello everyone:
Would you fellas no where I can get dies for my 20KB project?

I believe some folks had Hornady make dies at one point. Whidden gun works will also make dies if you send them fired cases, but not inexpensivee.
Drew

CH4D but don't be in a hurry http://www.ch4d.com/

killer bee
 

why killer bee over 20 ackley bee?

Not really sure will have to ask Kevin Weaver. He is in charge of my project.

What’s the difference?

20 Ackley bee has a 30 degree shoulder and a 20 killer bee has 40 degree shoulder. Not enough to make a significant difference. I've ended up with both because of a mistake in ordering the reamers, and have dies for both now also. My killer bee dies are made by whidden and my 20 Ackley bee dies are made by RCBS. Regardless of which way you go , it's critical that your dies match your reamer. what brass are you going to use? You have to make sure you end up with enough neck. On my latest Killer bee I'm using Starline brass which is .030 short to start with and I ran the reamer little deep. Great little cartridge, just make sure all components match up.

I have plenty of 218 Bee brass I would like to use. Donor is a Ruger No 1
I acquired from my mentor who has passed away. The gun was originally a
218 Bee which frustrated him to no end because he could never get it to shoot
to his satisfaction. So my plan is to solve that in his memory he was a great friend. Just need to find a way to get dies without a lot of hassle.

Great information thank you. I’m working with a Ruger no 1 that started life as a 218 Bee. I acquired the gun from my mentor when he was having a bad day with the gun. He had worked with it for quite a while and was never able to get satisfactory results from it. So I caught him at a weak and frustrated moment and took the gun. He has since passed away and is missed he loved the small calibers so the plan is to get his results in his memory. I no the wildcat cartridge alone would make him smile. Thanks to all for your help and inspiration with my project.

Good luck with your 20 KB
 

My friend Dan C came up with the Killer Bee idea and I may be slightly opinionated but I really like it and think you made a wise choice.
Kevin is an awesome guy,I’m sure he could take a Newlon blank or two and make up some dies.CH4D is an option as well as Hornady as others have said.
Looking forward to future posts of this project,I hope others who have built them chime in with pictures they are out there.:)
Matt

I agree with what Matt said on all accounts.

Like Drew said Hornady can make you a set and that’s where I got mine but they have gotten so expensive anymore although a good product. And I really like their laser engraving.

What I did was have a full length bushing die made up so I could use it for my 20 Killer Bee or either one of my 17 Killer Bees. And I neck size with a bushing die I made years ago.

The 20 Killer Bee is super awesome with the 32 gr bullets, you will see lots of red mist in the scope when shooting Pds

My three kb/ab's are on martini actions that I inherited from my dad, so I know that feeling of pride you are talking about. My opinion / advice on the dies, are to wait till your rifle is done and shoot a dozen rounds at least three or four times until you are sure the brass is fully formed , then send the brass to whidden or hornady or ? and have dies made. Their turnaround is pretty fast and you will know that the dies match the Chamber .

I a #1 Its gonna be awesome ask GLWenzl to show pictures of his 17 Caliber version

Something happened here where I can’t post photos anymore...

But here is a thread from the original owner ;) with some poor photos... I mean they just don’t do it justice...


http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5705

http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21667

My #1 218 Bee has a trigger in it, I have wood blanks for it, and the 20 KB dies for it... just can’t bring myself to let go of this good shooting 218 Bee... might need to buy another #1 someday.

If I could get my hands on some 20 caliber FP bullets, I’d be tempted to do my model 53 lol.

A few of us here have worked with .218Bee Ruger #1's using Lil'Gun powder and using a Lee Crimp die.
This die reduced my standard deviations to the low teens - as in 12 to 14, instead of 30-40.
Start with Hodgdon's data. 40gr. bullets were very accurate, sub 1/2" in my rifle, but 50's and 55's also shot under in inch.
The WW .218Bee brass is VERY strong brass.

Based on my own experiences with custom dies, I would recommend Whidden. FF the brass, then neck size and shoot it 3 more times to get it well blown out, then send 3 pcs to Whidden with the sized dimensions you expect (Kevin can help you with that) and have them make you a FLS die. If you are only going to use one lot of brass, you might consider a non-bushing die, otherwise I think that the bushing style is the best/most versatile. That should be a fun rifle if you can get it to shoot well.

20 Killer Bee
 

Ok fellas now thinking about a muzzle brake for my rifle. Any thoughts good or bad? Anyone have a brake on there KB happy unhappy worth the expense?

I remember when Dan and I were talking about his new .17 Killer Bee. I said I'd sure like it in a .20 and as memory serves a reamer print for the .20 Killer Bee showed up in my email in about 15 minutes. My memory stinks but I do remember Cajun Blake, Dan C., ML, and myself went 4zees $$ on the first reamer and it got sent to Greg Tannel where it still lives.
I had a lot more free time than the guys with "Pesky Day Jobs" so I dealt with Lonnie Hummel at Hornady who got a copy of the print and he made 4 full length dies, one each for all of us. At that time Wilson was a lot more compliant and they got a reamer print copy and made 4 Wilson inline seaters and 4 neck sizer bushing dies for us. Ain't doing that any more for wildcatters :(.
A big part of my reason on the .20 Killer Bee was Dan's logo that I really got a kick out of.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...ee004jpg_2.jpg.

A real nifty wildcat as is the .17 KB, but then is there a bad wildcat if a guy wants one built? Most surprising to me about the .20 Killer Bee is how similar the ballistics are between it and the .20 VarTarg?
Personal opinion only but as to a muzzle brake, I'd pass. The .20 Killer Bee is real quiet as is and ya see all the effects of your shots now with little recoil. I never shoot anything without hearing protection anyway and I see no gain "for me" with a brake. Add a silencer and now it's performance is the same but the noise is a lot more decibels. Others mileage may vary but that's my take, good luck and keep us informed :).

I will keep you posted Kevin W has acquired Wilson blanks and will make my dies for me. So I’m well on my way, just have to decide on the muzzle break. Thank you for all the good information.

Those links put a grin on my dial, Mntngoat showed a few pics of it in the "Project Guns" forum during 2008 and Kevin was the second post in that thread and called first dibbs.
Then in 2013 Mntngoat put it up for sale and Kevin was late to the party, but still was the first one to call first dibbs after it was sold.

Kevin you might have to build one as this one seems to be avoiding you :D:cool:

I wouldn't mind one of those octagonal barrels for one of my #1 actions.

Kiwi

Muzzle brake or not you will really enjoy it and Kevin will do you good. That said I agree with Doug about not really a need for the muzzle break. Of course my 30 Killer Bee had a heavy laminated stock at the time and a heavy barrel, but I could see way more red mist than I needed in my scope lol.

Looking forward to seeing how this project progresses, I’m excited just thinking about it!

Thanks for the picture Doug...
 

Just love the little boxing Bee,it tickles me too and the fact that it’s attached to a Cooper helps a bit too:D
Dan really had a knack for not only designing neat cartridges but also naming them well too.:cool:
Matt

I agree with Montdoug about the brake for small calibers. I have a used M21 in 223 that the previous owner had put a very nice Vais brake on it. It matches the texture of the bead blasted SS barrel. What bothers me is it when you fire the rifle, the gasses from the brake distorts what you see in the scope, sort of like having real bad mirage on a hot day. Really wrecks being able to see the nice acrobatics on PDs.

Good point TinMan that I never considered (I only shoot a brake on a 7-30 waters and never get to see much of anything lol).

The other thing is when I was younger and could get back up on my own, I really enjoyed those walks around a of town many times shooting off a bipod. Well, I found out the hard way that those gasses also create only heck of a dust cloud lol. Got caught up in the moment and didn’t consider or anticipate what was going to happen the moment I pulled the trigger shooting into the wind. Probably isn’t good for the paint on a pickup good lol

Gary, I'll add that I won't buy a pistol with a brake/compensator on it. A buddy had one (a short barreled Officer's model 45ACP) and the first time I shot it, it sent a bunch of burned powder back into my face. I wear glasses, but still got all the junk in my eyes.

The only reason for a muzzle brake is recoil reduction. I don't have a .20 Killer Bee, but I have a .20 VarTarg on a Cooper M38 Classic, which is a light rifle and has very little recoil.

I have taken my Cooper to South Africa three times. On the 2017 trip, the five year-old stepson of one of the professional hunters center punched a sand grouse at about thirty yards and turned it into a shower of feathers. I'll never forget the huge smile on that kid's face. :D :cool:

Your money, your choice of course, but I would skip the brake and roll the money into a good scope. Either way, good luck with your Killer Bee; I'm sure you are going to have a lot of fun with that rifle. :)