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potatohead 02-03-2011 03:49 PM

.19 cal bullets
 
Hello everyone, I've been looking through this forum for a bit now and just signed up. I have a 19 badger and was wanting to know what it would take to make the .19 cal bullets from .20 cal bullets. James makes some very nice products but I'm not a fan of the bullet coating used. To me it seems thick and when it builds up in the barrel it seems gummy.....this is only MY opinion.

Thanks for your time.

Charlie

cmatera 02-03-2011 05:11 PM

I'd like to know what it would take too, just in case he ever quits making them AND it would be nice to have more choices for accuracy and fur friendliness than just his double HP's.

ray h 02-03-2011 05:15 PM

Bill West was the first person I heard of sizing the bullets down and then RicN did a lot of work developing a system. Maybe he'll see this if not try PMing Ric.

william t. oviatt 02-03-2011 07:29 PM

CMATERA,
Have you tried the newer 32 ST (Nosler) bullets-they perform very well!
The bullet coating I think, is a Zink derivative-I have not had a "gumming" issue in barrels. I use AA1680- I know James prefers the AA2200, now, but I just can't believe I could get any better performance than I get now with the 1680.
Plus, I have too much of it to buy more/different powder! The powder residue is very black, but cleans easily.
Bill

cmatera 02-04-2011 12:54 AM

No, I have not tried the 32 ST but I will. I like the AA1680 too. I have about 8 or 10# of it. The dirtiness doesn't bother me either. It cleans up very easily. I do also shoot some Vit N120 and have about 6 or 8# of it as well. It burns pretty clean.

17VLD 02-04-2011 02:30 AM

You can buy a swaging die...
 
I believe Corbin makes them,they take the 20 cals down to 19 cal.
Pretty sure James starts with the 32grn Nosler to make his Sabre tips.
I remember way back when James was considering making these
poly tip bullets his biggest hurdle was finding dies to make the little tips.
I'm glad he is doing this for us I for one like the polys with their better bc.
Matt

kenbro 02-04-2011 06:30 AM

Does anyone know the bc of J.Calhoons bullets?
I'm using a 19fb with R7 and H4198. Barrel has over 150 rounds down and still gets fouled after only a few shots.
Thanks,Ken.

Dick Kohles 02-04-2011 11:58 AM

19 cal bullets. 32 gr ST
 
Did ballistic tests on the .198" 32 gr Nosier ST from Mr. Calhoon and and found the ballistic coefficient to be .235.
Dick

kenbro 02-04-2011 06:51 PM

Thanks very much Dick,
That will be the G7 BC?
Ken.

potatohead 02-04-2011 07:03 PM

I remember RickN wrote about the process. I was hoping to hear again how he did his and where he bought the dies/die to preform this task. Thanks everyone for your input!

Dick Kohles 02-04-2011 07:12 PM

This was from: http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin...j_simp-5.1.cgi
Shot 10 rounds over a chrongraph at 10 feet, added 15 fps to the average and than shot 10 rounds over the same chronograp at 200 yards. .235 was the ballictic coefficient result.
Dick

kenbro 02-05-2011 07:35 AM

Thanks Dick, Much appreciated.
Ken.

Dan C 02-05-2011 05:03 PM

Ken, there are ballistic tables with B.C. values on Calhoon's web site on the 19 caliber page. It's an underlined link called "click here for complete ballistic tables" or something like that. It does not have the new Sabre Tip but Dick's data for that bullet sounds about right to me.

Dan

kenbro 02-06-2011 08:49 AM

Thanks Dan. I had printed Mr. Leahys pages off but for some reason that info wasn't amongst it, will look again.
Ken.

potatohead 02-07-2011 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17VLD (Post 93278)
I believe Corbin makes them,they take the 20 cals down to 19 cal.
Pretty sure James starts with the 32grn Nosler to make his Sabre tips.
I remember way back when James was considering making these
poly tip bullets his biggest hurdle was finding dies to make the little tips.
I'm glad he is doing this for us I for one like the polys with their better bc.
Matt

Thanks 17VLD, I will look into it with Corbin. I wish I could get some more info in the process. Thanks

Gary in Illinois 02-07-2011 09:16 PM

Corbin
 
Look around on Dave Corbin's site. I believe he has a lot of information free for downloading that will provide hours of reading.

Good luck,
Gary

MIBULLETS 02-07-2011 11:28 PM

17VLD has it right. Corbin makes a bullet reducing die to do this. Go to the link here and go to the bullet draw die section. You can get them to fit a normal reloading press. You just push the bullet though a correctly sized ring die.

http://www.corbins.com/drawdies.htm#brd

Dan

potatohead 02-08-2011 04:54 PM

Thank you Dan, I think I need the BRD-R Draw die but will just call and to check as I wasn't able to find it on the pricing sheet. Thanks again for the link!!

Charlie

MIBULLETS 02-08-2011 09:33 PM

No problem Charlie! Hope it works out for you. If you get one and reduce some 20 calibers to 19 let us know your progress. I'm sure a lot of us will be interested in the results.

Dan

kenbro 02-09-2011 08:50 AM

After a quick look on Corbins site I came away thinking the reduction from .204 to .198 may be a step too far for that setup. Am I missing something here?
Ken.

potatohead 02-09-2011 03:28 PM

Because of the greater than .005 reduction huh. Well I'm sure that RickN said drawing was the way it needed to be done not swaging. It sounds like Jim is reducing .20 cals for his new tipped bullets. Any other ideas?? I like all that I have bought from Calhoon but really do want to go to molly coating instead of the "quick silver". I'm using his suggested load of AA2200 and after XX number of rounds down a clean barrel I get this cakey star blast around the muzzle. It made me think that if it's like that at the muzzle what is it like in the bore. Then once and only once I fired a cold bore shot at paper with this "cakey" barrel and the first shot was about half an inch high from the next 4. This was done at 80 yards via my range finder. What I am thinking is that the restriction of the quick silver build up increased the pressure and there for increased the velocity? Maybe if I used the molly it wouldn't do that and it would be easier to clean the barrel???

kenbro 02-09-2011 07:14 PM

potatohead,
I've over 200 rounds through my 19-221 and I still find It shoots better with a quick clean every 8 to 10 rounds. Dissapointing to say the least,but I'm hoping It will wear in and go more between cleans.
It would be nice If James would offer uncoated bullets alongside his shiny ones.
Ken.

MIBULLETS 02-09-2011 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenbro (Post 94088)
After a quick look on Corbins site I came away thinking the reduction from .204 to .198 may be a step too far for that setup. Am I missing something here?
Ken.

Well Dave Corbin does talk about limits to bullet reduction and still ending up with an accurate bullet. I would think that this case would be fine, we are only talking .006". He also says that the .005" is only a estimate and that can sometimes be more or less depending on the bullet. I think his process goes something like this. You send him some samples of the bullet you would like to reduce, then they build the die to perfectly draw that bullet down. Even though the die was built around one bullet, they almost always work with all bullets of the same diameter, assuming the bullet base is the same, ei flat base or boattail. All this may not even be needed if he knows what size works because they have done it before. My guess is, you are not the first to ask for this size and he will know what is needed. The best advice I can give you would be to send Dave an email or call him. He is a friendly guy and willing to talk if you can get a hold of him. If not, he normally answers his emails with in a day or two. They don't work Fridays though unless someone is paying for the overtime.

Dan

william t. oviatt 03-21-2011 11:59 PM

Cakey Star Blast...
 
I think that is the powder! I get that with the AA powder in my 19s and my 17AH and 221 FB-they all get AA1680 and the "star blast" accumulates on all of them. I have not had an accuracy problem, though.
Bill

kenbro 03-22-2011 09:50 AM

Bill,
Do you have a Badger that you use with AA powder? I ask because I have a 19FB(similar capacity) and have been using R7 and H4198. There's not much to choose between the two, but I think 4198 has the edge in my rifle.I can put 2 bullets in the same hole but the 3rd one always goes away by 3/8ths to 1/2", that might be me? That's with a bipod and back bag. @100yds.
Have you tried any other powders or are you happy with the accuracy you get with AA?
My gun now has almost 300 round down the barrel now but still need frequent cleaning.
Regards,Ken.

5mmgunguy 07-16-2011 11:55 PM

I had Corbin make a couple of sets of dies to reduce 20s to 19s...sold them all for cost. I have been converting Hornady 20 cal 32 gr platic tips to 19 cal. Seem to work just fine.

5mmgunguy 07-17-2011 01:16 PM

kenbro. How did you do the barrel break in? I have a 19 Badger too. Did a break in shot one cleaned for 10 rounds and then shot 3 and cleaned for 5 times. Cleaned for copper everytime, came out lots of blue to start...then it all but went away towards the 10 shot. The last five were for good measure and groups. The groups were in the .3 and .4s. Used the 32 grain HPs and some of James' new 2200. Velocity is 3490 fps.

JLDakota 07-17-2011 06:56 PM

New 2200
 
Would you mind giving out your grains of "new" 2200 in your Badger? I'm shooting the "old 2200" and just wondering the difference between the two powders. Thanks Jim

johno 07-18-2011 12:41 AM

5mmgunguy. I sent you a pm, but you may have missed it. You say you had Corbin make a couple of sets of dies for drawing down the 20cal to 19. Do you mean by set, that there are more than one die for this job? I have Rick's old die here and it works fine, though I stick with the nosler bullet. I am currious if you are doing it in two steps.

Ken, I use both RL-7 & 4198 (AR 2207 ) in my 19 abdger, both at 15.8 as per Jim's instructions. You could load 20 of each and mix them all up, you could not tell the difference. In my rifle perhaps RL-7 is the tightest, but I don't shoot well enough anymore to pick the difference. From the first rounds I put through it the rifle has never shot worse 0.450, and thats down to me.
Rl-7 probably runs better through the powder thrower. We can't get Accurate Arms powder over here:mad:

Johno

kenbro 07-18-2011 10:27 AM

5mmgunguy,
I shot the barrel in pretty much like you did, must have been getting up to 200 rounds before it settled down. Used Jim's silver bullets so didn't see any copper come out and it cleans up real easy now.

johno,

I've gone to R7 full time now for the 19fb. 18grs for 32s and 17.4 grs for 36s.
Best 3 shot groups @ 100 have been .178 for 36s and .25 for 32s.
@ 200 the 32s opened to .625 and the 36s went just on 1". thats laying down with a bipod and i'm happy with that. Load development finished, thank goodness. It's all worth it when you reach a satisfactory conclusion.

I too have ordered a reducing die from Mr. Corbin, Georgeld is kindly taking care of that on my behalf.Thanks George.
Ken.

johno 07-18-2011 11:08 AM

Ken, George is a gentleman, helped me several times over the years.
Did you have your own reamer? Thats fine groups your getting there, always would have liked to keep something up my sleeve if things go bad re importing the badger brass. An option would be to run a 19/221 reamer and open the bolt face

Johno

5mmgunguy 08-02-2011 12:56 AM

kenbro: I just saw your email about AA powder and my 19-221 FB. I am using the new AA2200. I have gone as high as 20 grains...going like 3675 fps over the chrono...settled on 19.7 grains going 3630 fps...very accurate in my rifle...shoots in the .2s.

kenbro 08-02-2011 08:13 AM

Johno,
Is the badger a less capacity case than the FB? 15.8 dosen't seem much powder.
I'm putting 17.4 of R7 in with 36 gr bullets for a little over 3400.
George shipped me DC die on Monday. Many thanks George.
Ken.

5mmgunguy,
I've gone to R7 as my first choice now. Thanks for your reply, Ken.

Bandmiller2 08-02-2011 11:42 AM

Bullet reduction
 
It's been my understanding that the big bugaboo in sizeing down bullets is the lead core gets reduced but the jacket tends to spring back.Done right the bullet needs to be reduced and reswaged. Mayby it dosen't make that much differance. Frank C.


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