.19 cal bullets
Hello everyone, I've been looking through this forum for a bit now and just signed up. I have a 19 badger and was wanting to know what it would take to make the .19 cal bullets from .20 cal bullets. James makes some very nice products but I'm not a fan of the bullet coating used. To me it seems thick and when it builds up in the barrel it seems gummy.....this is only MY opinion.
Thanks for your time. Charlie |
I'd like to know what it would take too, just in case he ever quits making them AND it would be nice to have more choices for accuracy and fur friendliness than just his double HP's.
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Bill West was the first person I heard of sizing the bullets down and then RicN did a lot of work developing a system. Maybe he'll see this if not try PMing Ric.
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CMATERA,
Have you tried the newer 32 ST (Nosler) bullets-they perform very well! The bullet coating I think, is a Zink derivative-I have not had a "gumming" issue in barrels. I use AA1680- I know James prefers the AA2200, now, but I just can't believe I could get any better performance than I get now with the 1680. Plus, I have too much of it to buy more/different powder! The powder residue is very black, but cleans easily. Bill |
No, I have not tried the 32 ST but I will. I like the AA1680 too. I have about 8 or 10# of it. The dirtiness doesn't bother me either. It cleans up very easily. I do also shoot some Vit N120 and have about 6 or 8# of it as well. It burns pretty clean.
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You can buy a swaging die...
I believe Corbin makes them,they take the 20 cals down to 19 cal.
Pretty sure James starts with the 32grn Nosler to make his Sabre tips. I remember way back when James was considering making these poly tip bullets his biggest hurdle was finding dies to make the little tips. I'm glad he is doing this for us I for one like the polys with their better bc. Matt |
Does anyone know the bc of J.Calhoons bullets?
I'm using a 19fb with R7 and H4198. Barrel has over 150 rounds down and still gets fouled after only a few shots. Thanks,Ken. |
19 cal bullets. 32 gr ST
Did ballistic tests on the .198" 32 gr Nosier ST from Mr. Calhoon and and found the ballistic coefficient to be .235.
Dick |
Thanks very much Dick,
That will be the G7 BC? Ken. |
I remember RickN wrote about the process. I was hoping to hear again how he did his and where he bought the dies/die to preform this task. Thanks everyone for your input!
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This was from: http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin...j_simp-5.1.cgi
Shot 10 rounds over a chrongraph at 10 feet, added 15 fps to the average and than shot 10 rounds over the same chronograp at 200 yards. .235 was the ballictic coefficient result. Dick |
Thanks Dick, Much appreciated.
Ken. |
Ken, there are ballistic tables with B.C. values on Calhoon's web site on the 19 caliber page. It's an underlined link called "click here for complete ballistic tables" or something like that. It does not have the new Sabre Tip but Dick's data for that bullet sounds about right to me.
Dan |
Thanks Dan. I had printed Mr. Leahys pages off but for some reason that info wasn't amongst it, will look again.
Ken. |
Quote:
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Corbin
Look around on Dave Corbin's site. I believe he has a lot of information free for downloading that will provide hours of reading.
Good luck, Gary |
17VLD has it right. Corbin makes a bullet reducing die to do this. Go to the link here and go to the bullet draw die section. You can get them to fit a normal reloading press. You just push the bullet though a correctly sized ring die.
http://www.corbins.com/drawdies.htm#brd Dan |
Thank you Dan, I think I need the BRD-R Draw die but will just call and to check as I wasn't able to find it on the pricing sheet. Thanks again for the link!!
Charlie |
No problem Charlie! Hope it works out for you. If you get one and reduce some 20 calibers to 19 let us know your progress. I'm sure a lot of us will be interested in the results.
Dan |
After a quick look on Corbins site I came away thinking the reduction from .204 to .198 may be a step too far for that setup. Am I missing something here?
Ken. |
Because of the greater than .005 reduction huh. Well I'm sure that RickN said drawing was the way it needed to be done not swaging. It sounds like Jim is reducing .20 cals for his new tipped bullets. Any other ideas?? I like all that I have bought from Calhoon but really do want to go to molly coating instead of the "quick silver". I'm using his suggested load of AA2200 and after XX number of rounds down a clean barrel I get this cakey star blast around the muzzle. It made me think that if it's like that at the muzzle what is it like in the bore. Then once and only once I fired a cold bore shot at paper with this "cakey" barrel and the first shot was about half an inch high from the next 4. This was done at 80 yards via my range finder. What I am thinking is that the restriction of the quick silver build up increased the pressure and there for increased the velocity? Maybe if I used the molly it wouldn't do that and it would be easier to clean the barrel???
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potatohead,
I've over 200 rounds through my 19-221 and I still find It shoots better with a quick clean every 8 to 10 rounds. Dissapointing to say the least,but I'm hoping It will wear in and go more between cleans. It would be nice If James would offer uncoated bullets alongside his shiny ones. Ken. |
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Dan |
Cakey Star Blast...
I think that is the powder! I get that with the AA powder in my 19s and my 17AH and 221 FB-they all get AA1680 and the "star blast" accumulates on all of them. I have not had an accuracy problem, though.
Bill |
Bill,
Do you have a Badger that you use with AA powder? I ask because I have a 19FB(similar capacity) and have been using R7 and H4198. There's not much to choose between the two, but I think 4198 has the edge in my rifle.I can put 2 bullets in the same hole but the 3rd one always goes away by 3/8ths to 1/2", that might be me? That's with a bipod and back bag. @100yds. Have you tried any other powders or are you happy with the accuracy you get with AA? My gun now has almost 300 round down the barrel now but still need frequent cleaning. Regards,Ken. |
I had Corbin make a couple of sets of dies to reduce 20s to 19s...sold them all for cost. I have been converting Hornady 20 cal 32 gr platic tips to 19 cal. Seem to work just fine.
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kenbro. How did you do the barrel break in? I have a 19 Badger too. Did a break in shot one cleaned for 10 rounds and then shot 3 and cleaned for 5 times. Cleaned for copper everytime, came out lots of blue to start...then it all but went away towards the 10 shot. The last five were for good measure and groups. The groups were in the .3 and .4s. Used the 32 grain HPs and some of James' new 2200. Velocity is 3490 fps.
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New 2200
Would you mind giving out your grains of "new" 2200 in your Badger? I'm shooting the "old 2200" and just wondering the difference between the two powders. Thanks Jim
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5mmgunguy. I sent you a pm, but you may have missed it. You say you had Corbin make a couple of sets of dies for drawing down the 20cal to 19. Do you mean by set, that there are more than one die for this job? I have Rick's old die here and it works fine, though I stick with the nosler bullet. I am currious if you are doing it in two steps.
Ken, I use both RL-7 & 4198 (AR 2207 ) in my 19 abdger, both at 15.8 as per Jim's instructions. You could load 20 of each and mix them all up, you could not tell the difference. In my rifle perhaps RL-7 is the tightest, but I don't shoot well enough anymore to pick the difference. From the first rounds I put through it the rifle has never shot worse 0.450, and thats down to me. Rl-7 probably runs better through the powder thrower. We can't get Accurate Arms powder over here:mad: Johno |
5mmgunguy,
I shot the barrel in pretty much like you did, must have been getting up to 200 rounds before it settled down. Used Jim's silver bullets so didn't see any copper come out and it cleans up real easy now. johno, I've gone to R7 full time now for the 19fb. 18grs for 32s and 17.4 grs for 36s. Best 3 shot groups @ 100 have been .178 for 36s and .25 for 32s. @ 200 the 32s opened to .625 and the 36s went just on 1". thats laying down with a bipod and i'm happy with that. Load development finished, thank goodness. It's all worth it when you reach a satisfactory conclusion. I too have ordered a reducing die from Mr. Corbin, Georgeld is kindly taking care of that on my behalf.Thanks George. Ken. |
Ken, George is a gentleman, helped me several times over the years.
Did you have your own reamer? Thats fine groups your getting there, always would have liked to keep something up my sleeve if things go bad re importing the badger brass. An option would be to run a 19/221 reamer and open the bolt face Johno |
kenbro: I just saw your email about AA powder and my 19-221 FB. I am using the new AA2200. I have gone as high as 20 grains...going like 3675 fps over the chrono...settled on 19.7 grains going 3630 fps...very accurate in my rifle...shoots in the .2s.
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Johno,
Is the badger a less capacity case than the FB? 15.8 dosen't seem much powder. I'm putting 17.4 of R7 in with 36 gr bullets for a little over 3400. George shipped me DC die on Monday. Many thanks George. Ken. 5mmgunguy, I've gone to R7 as my first choice now. Thanks for your reply, Ken. |
Bullet reduction
It's been my understanding that the big bugaboo in sizeing down bullets is the lead core gets reduced but the jacket tends to spring back.Done right the bullet needs to be reduced and reswaged. Mayby it dosen't make that much differance. Frank C.
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