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-   -   .20 Cal Bullet Moulds - Who's tried them? (http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9)

Daryl 09-21-2006 03:22 PM

.20 Cal Bullet Moulds - Who's tried them?
 
So far, I'm still without a .20 cal, but may change that by next summer. I am interested in seeing who's tried the new Lee moulds and what success they've had. I am interested in velocities, alloy used, load description, as in wads, fillers (dacron, kapok, shotshell buffer, etc. and results at what range.
: Well, how about it?
Daryl

GLWenzl 09-21-2006 11:51 PM

I tried it
 
:rolleyes: Man is it slow going though... :mad: Gave me a new appreciation of the 500 Wild Bill West sent me.:D His sure shot well!!!:D

Pappy 09-22-2006 01:10 AM

Somebody help GLW
 
GLW,
All I know about cast bullets is what I learned making .58 cals in a Lee mold for a muzzle-loader I used to have (30 years ago). I used pure lead, and I bought a sizing die that I could push all my bullets through, because I never managed to get them all the same size as-cast. I had been a foundry metallurgist shortly before, and I knew how important lead temperature and mold temperature would be for sizing and quality.

georgeld 09-29-2006 05:29 AM

Hmmm: Lee's got a .20 cal mold out?? Six cavity??

With that to start with, then maybe it wouldn't be too hard to push them thru a .17 sizer die.

GW: were those hard lead as cast? OR jacketed?

I've been trying to get Paul R to help me make a jacket punch for .22 cases.

What has me stumped is cutting them off to length without wrecking them.

Do wish I could see the die set up to make jacketed type bullets.

I've been casting a lot of years and found a great alloy is 'picking pellets' at the range and using that for the lead. It's hard enough I can't mark it with a thumb nail. That's hard enough it won't lead a pistol barrel. Do believe it's limited as to velocity unless there's a jacket on it. I haven't shot any in a rifle but, others have with my salvaged lead, two of them were very hard to beat shooting CMP match's @ 200yds.

I'd be willing to send a few pistol bullets to some of you guys to check out the material. It's the same as you'd get going to the range's berm and picking it up though. Only thing different is I got this in quantity at a pistol range a few yrs back. Until then, I was taking a bucket to the outdoor range and "picking pellets". In a half hour I could get two buckets with enough it was hard to carry them.

Rocks, dirt, jackets and other crap all floats so don't worry about that part any.

I cast enough to justify Lee's six cavity molds as the only molds I buy. Have several of them at $50 each.

Daryl 10-02-2006 05:12 PM

The .20 ca mould is a custom mould
 
Bill West had designed and Lee made for us. It is a double cavity mould only, but I suppose they'd make a 6 if ordered.
: All I'd need is a .20 neck/throater and sizer button as the AB hand dies will work just fine for a .20AB. The .17AB reamer will work as well.
: I use mostly WW metal, as our's is a bit harder than US wheelweights for some reason, coming out around 13 brinel. Hardened they will run about 32brinel.
: Note that any addition of tin to the wheelweights prevents 'over 30' hardening and with tin in the alloy, they age soften fairly rapidly, depending on how much tin is in there.
: An even better mix for really hard bullets is 50% pure lead and 50% wheelweights. There is still enough arsnic to kick off the hardening, and bullets of that allow will run up to 35 brinel, capable of handling 3,000fps with LBT Blue lube. Perhaps there are some others, I don't know of. Alox won't cut it at those speeds. Also, such a hard bullet becomes quite explosive on contact. I've not shot anything with them, just repeating what Harrison and Veral Smith have written. I'v eshot hardened bullets to only 2,800fps, but can attest to their accuracy at those speeds with LBT Blue lube.
Daryl

georgeld 10-08-2006 03:10 AM

When I was a kid and things were so cheap it'd give these younger guys a heart attack just to read about it.
I tried casting for my '06 using pretty soft lead and didn't know a thing about doing it other than I had a single hole mold and the desire.

Never did get one to make a round hole in the paper, and mighty few of them of any shape that didn't include a bunch of various sized smaller hole's scattered around them too. After awhile I gave it up as a total waste of time.

Maybe 10-15 yrs ago when I got back into the shooting games I started casting for handguns and get along with that just great in buckets full quantities. In three sessions of about three to four hours I can cast up a two gallon bucket full of .38's easy enough. IF they age soften, I've never noticed it. When I get around to loading them, they've been hard enough everytime I haven't been able to mark them with my thumbnail. That's good enough for me as to hardness. My only goal is to have them hard enough they won't lead a bore in the handguns up to about 900fps or so, and this alloy will do that fine.

I try to keep the soft stuff separated when making a big melt of scrap for just in case later. Right now there's around 13-1400 ingots under my bench and maybe a dozen five gallon buckets full of scrap in the corner that hasn't been melted down yet. Yield has been between 110-125# per bucket. Doubt I'll need to pick up more scrap very soon.

I load and mostly let women and kids burn up the 115gr 308 RN's in the 06 to teach them how to shoot the big guns without recoil and blast working them over. They're quite accurate out to about 100 feet or so and that's about all the distance they need to learn how to shoot the big guns. I've taken over 400 rnds to the range and never fired a shot myself and run out of ammo. Had them lined up to shoot ten shots all night til they ran out. I get a lot of enjoyment out of helping people like that shoot, learn and have fun.
Those are loaded with about 5-7 gr Red Dot and never shown a sign of leading the bore either.

I wouldn't begin to guess what the BHN is of this alloy. Don't matter to me long as it's hard enough it don't lead the bore.

Daryl 10-09-2006 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeld (Post 853)
When I was a kid and things were so cheap it'd give these younger guys a heart attack just to read about it.
I tried casting for my '06 using pretty soft lead and didn't know a thing about doing it other than I had a single hole mold and the desire.

Never did get one to make a round hole in the paper, and mighty few of them of any shape that didn't include a bunch of various sized smaller hole's scattered around them too. After awhile I gave it up as a total waste of time.

Maybe 10-15 yrs ago when I got back into the shooting games I started casting for handguns and get along with that just great in buckets full quantities. In three sessions of about three to four hours I can cast up a two gallon bucket full of .38's easy enough. IF they age soften, I've never noticed it. When I get around to loading them, they've been hard enough everytime I haven't been able to mark them with my thumbnail. That's good enough for me as to hardness. My only goal is to have them hard enough they won't lead a bore in the handguns up to about 900fps or so, and this alloy will do that fine.

I try to keep the soft stuff separated when making a big melt of scrap for just in case later. Right now there's around 13-1400 ingots under my bench and maybe a dozen five gallon buckets full of scrap in the corner that hasn't been melted down yet. Yield has been between 110-125# per bucket. Doubt I'll need to pick up more scrap very soon.

I load and mostly let women and kids burn up the 115gr 308 RN's in the 06 to teach them how to shoot the big guns without recoil and blast working them over. They're quite accurate out to about 100 feet or so and that's about all the distance they need to learn how to shoot the big guns. I've taken over 400 rnds to the range and never fired a shot myself and run out of ammo. Had them lined up to shoot ten shots all night til they ran out. I get a lot of enjoyment out of helping people like that shoot, learn and have fun.
Those are loaded with about 5-7 gr Red Dot and never shown a sign of leading the bore either.

I wouldn't begin to guess what the BHN is of this alloy. Don't matter to me long as it's hard enough it don't lead the bore.

: A standard cast bullet plinking load for most calibres, from the 6mm's to the '06 and even larger to .375H&H is 13gr. of Red Dot. This load gives around 1,200fps to 1,300fps in most ctgs. This broad-range load was written up in an old Gun Digest. I can't remember what colour the cover was.
: Of course, the lower the pressure and velocity, the softer & less critical can be the alloy. This loading is NOT for sub-calibres, only larger bored rifles.
Daryl

georgeld 12-26-2006 03:53 AM

Thanks Daryl"
That's twice the powder charge I use. So I get double the number, haha!

The ligh ter loads I use don't cause damage to the backstop at the indoor pistol range. IF it did, they'd make me stop bringing them out there.
Lot's of reasons for me to keep using these lighter loads because I'm doing a lot of people a lot of good by teaching the women and kids how to shoot the big rifle's where it's safe and the noise indoors creates an undesired environment.

As long as it don't lead the bore, thats my only goal. This is only a fifty foot range so the extra power isn't needed there either.

It's possible if these bullets were boosted to that velocity they might start leading. These loads are much less than some of the magnum pistol loads some of the guys shoot. They do have a rule about No center fire rifles'.
But, I've passed the data by the board and they've allowed it because of the lack of damage, lack of noise and the great benefits to so many beginning shooters.

Wish you well,

Daryl 03-02-2007 02:42 PM

BTW- "The Load" I mentioned was written up by Ed Harris, who is curently a contributing menmber on the CBA web site's forum. Ed's been there, done that, pretty much everything with cast or jacketed.
: As far as leading and alloy hardness - size is more important than alloy hardness. With velocities below about 1,700fps, the only way to get leading is with undersize bullets, if a BW/Alox lube is used. Even range salvage and WW will take up to 1,700fps and in some guns, well over that velocity, without leading. My .458's shoot 1/2 and 1/2 WW and pure lead for a brinel of about 7 or 8, right to 2,000fps without leading and 2,200fps with straight wheelweight alloy. It's about size. I've found my handguns don't lead at all now that I shoot oversize WW alloy bullets, both .357 mag and .44 mag with full power loads. Slugging one's chamber mouths is the very most important measurement along with bullets that fit the chamber mouths perfectly. The groove diameter must be smaller than this or identical, but not larger as some older Colts were. Best case senario is to have the groove diameter .001" to .0005" smaller than the chamber throat.

Rodgervich 04-19-2007 04:17 AM

I shot just a few of the cast boolits from the .20 cal mold a couple of weeks ago. Not much of a test though and the results were pretty pathetic. I picked 10 of the nicest looking, filled bullets and lubed with Alox, no sizing. Random load in my 5mm Shrike, probably too light but safety first.
Chrony showed ~1600-1650 ft/s and they barely all hit a 2 foot square target at 100yds...once I figured out a full 15" of drop.
Not high on my list of things to do.


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