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-   -   central fire 22 LR (http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33954)

pocketshaver 03-19-2018 06:31 AM

central fire 22 LR
 
I know that in the early days, pre 1930 there were center fire 22 long rifles, but I just cant find more then mere mention of them anywhere. They existed, and disappeared from the market with many other odd rounds.

I have spent the last year trying to figure out the production issues, and although a 22 short, long, or LR is all I actually want, case dimensions may not let me get a small pistol primer in without some minor case expansion at the rim.
Doable, but not fun in the long run.

The conversion for the standard 22lr bolt would be easy peasy. Part of the idea of 22lr conversion is about cost of the gun. Most people have multiple 22lrs laying around, and a dedicated conversion of a bolt on say a rascal would be very straight forward and easy. Could be done to keep rim fire ability as well.

Ammoguide has "official" wildcats of 22lr that someone merely removed the factory projectile and powder and put their own into. Not a bad idea long term, but a bit touchy I assume on bullet extraction.

My interest came when my preferred pest ammo, CCI CBs, became hard to find, and expensive. Quality went down hill, and it can be erratic. You can shoot a squirrel in the head with most rounds in the box, but suddenly you start getting rounds that can have a variance of 3-8 inches.

I got interested in the low velocity loading for 22 hornet and .223 Remington but the cost of the gun itself seemed to over do the benefit of consistent accuracy. But the results people get can be interesting.

I admit the actual case of a conversion can be as simple as squeezing a primer into a fired 22lr case provided by range day for 8 year olds, or as complicated as lathe turning something that could be made to fit a pistol primer and fit into a standard chamber.

Most folks here are about velocity. IS this a worthwhile endeavor for anyone besides myself, or just a "hey I got my name on something"?

dedogs 03-19-2018 11:26 AM

.22 CCM (Cooper Centerfire Magnum) loaded down with Trail Boss. dedogs

Nor Cal Mikie 03-19-2018 12:46 PM

Something I find interesting but never heard of. A center fire 22 LR.But me being a youngster, I guess I thought I'd heard of everything.;)

One thing you did mention that I've thought about is the bullet replacement on the LR ammo. A while back, someone posted about dies he had made for necking down LR brass to load a 22 caliber center fire bullets. Never was able to find that info anymore but think about it often.:cool:

pocketshaver 03-20-2018 05:51 AM

the outside diameter of the 22lr case is supposed to be .224 and the inside of that neck is supposed to be about the same estimated .223 diameter for the bullet heel to fit.

Perhaps not exactly going to need a lot of necking down at all.


I guess my main goal is to create something that's useful, and not expensive to get into. SOME of you guys may not flinch at the cost but I do. My whole thought is to use the most basic things available.

I had thought about the 22 CCM but for some reason its a no go, either try to find limited run fiochi velo dog ammo to use as a parent case, or send 2 dollars a round for formed cases.

I admit some versions are easier and easier to di. It may be easier to just go completely custom, and get a hornet or a donor .223, and simply reduce the case capacity with simple methods.
1. install an inner sleeve to reduce case capacity
2. chop the case down and drop the existing sholder/neck down as far as possible. For some reason I believe the .223 short can be shortened further by using a 22 hornet die.

Foxhunter223 03-20-2018 09:02 AM

Nor Cal Mikie
Quote:

One thing you did mention that I've thought about is the bullet replacement on the LR ammo. A while back, someone posted about dies he had made for necking down LR brass to load a 22 caliber center fire bullets. Never was able to find that info anymore but think about it often.
Wasn't that the person who was loading Sierra 55 gn projectiles over C4 in his rimfire cases, which is why he had the dies made.

Pete

17tbs 03-20-2018 09:58 AM

Good luck
 
Silly as this may sound this cat is skinned already . Use a .25 auto necked down to .224, (when k a guy did here on this forum), or get a set of form dies to squeeze a lot of .22 hornet cases down until they are matches for 22lr.

.

Nor Cal Mikie 03-20-2018 12:34 PM

"Wasn't that the person who was loading Sierra 55 gr projectiles over C4 in his rimfire cases, which is why he had the dies made."

Pete:
Not sure who it was but it sure sounded interesting. Seems like he had made the dies himself and just replaced the bullets with center fire's. The 22 rimfire bullets were a little larger than the center fires so all it took was to neck down the cases a bit and seat a new bullet. May have been a machinist and was into building pieces for race cars?? That stuff keeps coming to mind.
A rim fire case topped with a 40 grain VLD would sure get the job done. Just the shape of the bullet would be a big improvement. Don't think he said anything about changing the powder charge? :D Mike.

pocketshaver 03-20-2018 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 17tbs (Post 268259)
Silly as this may sound this cat is skinned already . Use a .25 auto necked down to .224, (when k a guy did here on this forum), or get a set of form dies to squeeze a lot of .22 hornet cases down until they are matches for 22lr.

.

the guy who came up with that idea is a cranky guy on a reloading forum I will not participate with anymore. Short story, a "forum moderator" with very sensitive view points made a post with a poll, and anyone who did not vote their way was well, given a deactivated account.

The way the guy did that 25acp conversion was to neck the crap out of it, but in order to deal with the head diameter, he had to take I believe .03 or .003 off all the way around with a lathe. Last I knew he was building a "shearing die" to simply take that last smidgen of diameter off the case head.

I still think its a good concept, the shortened 22 hornet is a fun thing to look at, but the custom dies are something I would like to avoid. Hence my interest with 22 rmfire.

If done right, and shearing dies are safe and sane and easy, might be able to skip reusing fired brass.

Nor Cal Mikie 03-20-2018 03:22 PM

You mentioned a "shortened" version of the .223? One of the guys is doing that very thing. I'am working with an even shorter version. 22 TCM necked down to 20. The 22 TCM would do what you have in mind. I did a shorter version of the 20 VT but making brass was an issue at times then I ran onto the TCM. Just taking the neck down to 20 got me to where I wanted to be. TCM factory made brass is good stuff.

squirrel_slayer 03-20-2018 08:10 PM

a 22 ccm shortened to 22lr length would likely be your best bet. but options like the 22 Epperson cricket (25acp/22) a shortened 5.7x28 or 22 hornet (22 squirrel) are also possibilities.

of the above the 5.7x28 would likely be the cheapest(mostly due to brass availability). but brass quality is iffy but being loaded to cb levels should last a lifetime. since the case has no taper you could just short chamber with the reamer and shorten dies an equal amount. also it would be wise to use cast bullets as the bore diameter is a few tho. smaller and using dead soft lead would have a higher chance of expanding at cb velocities.

just remember as you go larger with the bolt face diameter so does bolt thrust. so pressure capability goes down. for cb levels this shouldn't be an issue. powder weights will be critical with small case capacities.


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