Factors in barrel life.

[SDguy605]

At least a few guys here seem to like to push the envelope to the point that barrel life is compromised a notable amount. This leads to my question, which has likely been posted here before what factors play heaviest to promote throat erosion.

I am listing the factors that I am aware of below in the order I suspect to be of highest cause, based on my reading. Never having had burned a barrel out myself I am hoping to learn from real world experience of others. Thanks ahead of time for those who are willing and able to share their observations.

1.) Barrel quality.
2.) Cleaning technique and frequency based on need.
3.) Pressure (and the heat that goes with the increased pressure)
4.) Velocity (and the heat that accompanies the friction at the velocity)
5.) Volume of powder (and the abrasiveness of the volume of powder)

May I present circumstances another way, comparing throat erosion in two different calibers 17 Predator and the 17 Fireball barrel quality, barrel cleaning procedures being equal. If one were loading the 17 Fireball Hot loose primer pockets in quality Laupa Brass and similar or same pressure in the 17 Predator.

Would barrel life be compromised similarly in both calibers or would the higher powder volume and higher velocity dramatically shorten throat life more so in with the 17-predator cartridge? Under equal pressure load circumstances, how would the lower case volume lower velocity 17 Fireball throat erosion rate compare to the higher velocity higher case volume 17 Predator?

I am guessing that we would be looking at 20% difference in powder volume and 350 fps difference in the two cartridges.

[xring]

I would include one more ..... how fast you keep firing ....like in the prarie dog Fields . I have burned out 220 Swift Factory Barrels in less than 1000 rounds ( did'nt keep exact counts in those days ) . You could burn your hands if you touched the Barrels . My last 223 still surprises me . Hart SS heavy Barrel still going strong after over 10,000 rounds .

[wally bennett]

Originally Posted by SDguy605

At least a few guys here seem to like to push the envelope to the point that barrel life is compromised a notable amount. This leads to my question, which has likely been posted here before what factors play heaviest to promote throat erosion.

I am listing the factors that I am aware of below in the order I suspect to be of highest cause, based on my reading. Never having had burned a barrel out myself I am hoping to learn from real world experience of others. Thanks ahead of time for those who are willing and able to share their observations.

1.) Barrel quality.
2.) Cleaning technique and frequency based on need.
3.) Pressure (and the heat that goes with the increased pressure)
4.) Velocity (and the heat that accompanies the friction at the velocity)
5.) Volume of powder (and the abrasiveness of the volume of powder)

May I present circumstances another way, comparing throat erosion in two different calibers 17 Predator and the 17 Fireball barrel quality, barrel cleaning procedures being equal. If one were loading the 17 Fireball Hot loose primer pockets in quality Laupa Brass and similar or same pressure in the 17 Predator.

Would barrel life be compromised similarly in both calibers or would the higher powder volume and higher velocity dramatically shorten throat life more so in with the 17-predator cartridge? Under equal pressure load circumstances, how would the lower case volume lower velocity 17 Fireball throat erosion rate compare to the higher velocity higher case volume 17 Predator?

I am guessing that we would be looking at 20% difference in powder volume and 350 fps difference in the two cartridges.

Very pertinent question mate and one i would like answers to my self.
One of the reasons i have kept velocities down to under 3,700ft/sec on my 17 Ackly Hornet is barrel life even though i am only using les than 11gr on my current load and 17 hornets are not known to be barrell burners i dont want to put another barrel on considering the trouble i had with this one.
Wally

[SDguy605]

Thanks for the input xring, I agree Ill add the rapid fire to my list.

I would like to find a moderate load that is a top performer in my 17 Fireballs though thus far, Max loads are where groups have come together for me. I contemplate if I am giving up anything noteworthy in barrel life in the typically conservative 17 Fireball round.

The 30 grain pills are what has fit my bill, so velocity is not nessisarly a priority for my intended use.

[sinarms]

Barrel life is usually not a problem because by the time most people wear out a barrel they are ready for something else. I run my guns for accuracy and if that means pushing them hard then so be it. It's like having a fast car and putting around town like you are 100, there is no fun in that so you might as well use it as it was designed for.

[SmokinJoe]

My approach to all this is similar to sinarms. I am admittedly a performance enthusiast, cars as well as guns. I want the best compromise of performance (velocity) and accuracy. In a good rifle, those two frequently go together fortunately. When I develop loads, I pick an initial starting point, then work up untill SD's get down to a good level, then work around in that area until I find the best accuracy - sort of a ladder approach I guess. It seems that when the SD gets down low, you have found the sweet spot most of the time, though some loads just won't group no matter how good the chrony data looks - then you just take that powder of the list for that gun.
As far as barrel life goes, there are a number of players in my experience. To get maximum barrel life, you have to first pick an efficient cartridge. If you pick an overbore cartridge, barrel life is compromised from the start, but some shooters just have to have that 4000 fps rifle, ya know. I'm not too far from that myself, but I know going in that there is probably going to be a price associated with that level of performance.
Next most important is good cleaning equipment and cleaning technique, plus learning the minimum amount of cleaning needed to keep the barrel performing well. You can easily do more damage to a barrel cleaning it than shooting it, if you don't do it correctly. I have a 223 AI custom varmint rifle that shoots very well & used it extensively on a trip to SD/Wyo a few years ago. I was shooting ball powder & moly bullets, and encountered all the devils those two can give you; simply put, the barrel took a lot of effort to get it clean. In the course of a four day shoot, I cleaned almost an inch of a couple of the lands out of the chamber end of that barrel. Fortunately, it still shoots pretty good, but now I use a much better bore guide, rods & technique - seein' is believein', right?
And, the third biggy is not overheating the barrel. When the barrel gets hot enough that you can't comfortably rest your hand on it, it needs to cool off before being shot anymore, or you need to make the decision that you are having so much fun that you are willing to buy another barrel so that you can continue to keep shootin' those dogs right now. As an example, on my 1st PD shoot, the guide took us out to shoot some long range dogs one morning. I had an excellent shooting 243 AI with me, but the other guy didn't have anything to shoot that distance. I put 50 rounds through the rifle over about an hour and a half, and it was staying pretty darn hot. Well, the guy with me had discovered that he didn't have anything with him that would go over about 700 yards, and we were trying to shoot at 1250 yards, but he was about to have a nervous breakdown or something to try that long range shooting. So, I let him put another 50 rounds through my rifle over the next little while. I'm sure you have figured out the rest; in the course of that 100 too quick rounds, plus the rounds put through it during a little load development, that barrel was toast. When I borescoped it after returning home, the bore was more firecracked than my original championship 30BR barrel when it was retired after over 9000 rounds.
So there are a good many things to consider when looking at barrel life, but these are the three biggest , IMHO. Hope this helps some of you, and reading about some of my learning experiences helps you avoid the same mistakes, after you quit laughing your ass off of course.

[SDguy605]

SmokinJoe Thanks for the humorous education. Truly appreciate you sharing some sad ends to barrel life. Moral of this story for me is that if you are not able to slow down and switch guns or clean the tube you may well kiss that one good by.

Priority one for barrel life in the prairie poodle field is let them cool down I suppose.

Not easy to share lessons that have been come by, the hard way.

Thanks again!!

[Sask Al]

I'm one of the few guys who thinks that most people clean their rifle barrels too much and wear them out faster than by using them as they were intended. When accuracy falls off, I clean them. Sometimes it's hundreds of rounds. Definitely in the multiple hundreds of rounds with the .22cal rimfire. Very rarely do I use a bore brush either. Generally just patches on a Patch Worm.

[turbineman]

SmokinJoe, NAILED IT! good reply. I have observed the same effects. also learned the hard way on proper cleaning techniques ( PROPER BORE GUIDE IS A MUST, AND DON'T BEND THAT ROD!!! )

[SDguy605]

Ok this is a work in progress for me. Though barrel life is high on my priority list, at least a little higher in priority than accuracy. I am one who is elated with anything under 1/2" at 100 yards.

Now from load development perspective what else may we have for food for thought? Are stick powders better or worse than ball powders? for example


1.) Don’t overheat barrel (hot to the touch)
2.) Cleaning technique and frequency based on need. good bore guide a must
3.) Pressure (and the heat that goes with the increased pressure)
4.) Barrel quality.
5.) Velocity (and the heat that accompanies the friction at the velocity)
6.) Volume of powder (and the abrasiveness of the volume of powder)