250 Savage Ackley Improved FL die...

[Alan in GA]

Well, I've always been able to shoot factory 250 Savage [Winchester brand] ammo, and a few odd cases in my 250AI until now.
I recently purchased some EXCELLENT 22-250 Lapua cases what with their large head diameter - 0.468"~!!, a GREAT fit in my 0.471" 'slightly too large in diameter' chamber. Factory Winchester cases work but I don't like the bulge created from firing 0.463" cases in a 0.471" chamber. Hence the joy of finding the Lapua cases being the largest I've ever found.
The problem is that even cutting 0.010" off the bottom of a 250 Savage FL RCBS die [standard, not AI], I can't size the donut formed at the base of the neck down enough to fit my 'too short' chamber. As factory 250 Savage ammo is such a nice firm fit for 'first fireforming', I am wanting to now try an actual 250AI FL die before running the reamer back into this chamber. I'm 'out of spec' I'm sure but would still like to fall back to actually BUYING an ACTUAL .250 Savage Ack Imp. FL die [: (]
I was wondering if anyone has one for sale, or even if you want to load your 250SAI FL die for me to try making this Lapua brass fit.
It actually is to the point where the 22-250 cases fit my 250SAI chamber. If I expand the 22-250 necks up to .25 cal with a tapered expander, they STILL fit in my chamber. However when I pull the expander back through the 25 neck it bulges [creates] the dreaded donut at the neck/shoulder junction, enough to prevent entry. I even removed the expander rod, sized the neck down to 25 in the FL die, then seated a boat tail bullet in the neck and THAT expands the donut/neck to where it is too much of an interference at the neck base.
So,....I would like to try a 250 SAI FL die before running the reamer back into this chamber. This reaming the chamber a bit deeper will also make my already fire formed factory .250 SAvage ammo too small as far as headspace and it will have to be refitted [seat bullets out on next load, oil cases, etc].

Anyone got a .250 Savage Ackley Improved reamer to loan or sell?
Going the 'new AI die' route if not. Thanks.

FYI- I actually have never had to 'full length' resize any Ackley case other than maybe a 17AH that had a half dozen loads through it. Guess it's time to break down and buy an actual Ackley Improved die.... : )

[WayneShaw]

There is the problem with the "standard" .004" short AI chamber. Meaning, a AI go gauge is .004" shorter than the standard parent go gauge. That .004" is assumed this will create the crush on the brass when shooting a factory load.
Obviously the Lapua brass is thicker than the Winchester brass.

I've been in several heated discussions about this AI chamber, and the fire forming process. These people don't understand what it takes to make a Dasher case. But I digress...

Can you chamber an untouched Lapua brass before necking it up? If you cAn, fire form the brass without a bullet using pistol powder and fill if with cream of wheat. This will make the Lapua match your chamber.

[Alan in GA]

the 22-250 chambers, and chambers after necking to 25 cal. But pull it over a .250 expander or just seat a 25 cal bullet and the 'turn' at the neck/shoulder intersection somehow over expands and prevents chambering by quite a bit. Thought about powder-wad-no bullet forming but thinking maybe I just need to buy a correct AI FL die and be done with it.
On second thought it would be nice to have 10 or 20 cases to start playing with these Lapua cases.
No Bullseye but I have Unique, does Unique work?

[WayneShaw]

The same thing happens when making 30BR cases from the 6BR. Part of the shoulder ends up in the neck. You have to either run an expander in then turn the "doughnut" down from the outside, or fireform and use a K&M and cut it from the inside. The carbide mandrel has a cutting edge that will remove the doughnut.

If you want to fireform, Unique should work, I would start with about 10 grains and try one. If the shoulder doesn't blow out fully, go up some. Do you feel some bolt crush on the new brass? You'll need that in order to hold the bras firm while the firing pin hits. Dump the powder in, fill the case to the bottom of the neck with COW, stuff a wad of paper towel in to keep it all in, and fire.


The 250AI is going to be next on my list for a fun gun. I have the reamer and have brass.

[malahini40]

Maybe off topic a bit but I have been making cases for my 250 AI for over thirty years using Lake City N.M. 308 brass. I know it`s stupid but it works and lasts forever. I neck it down in the seater die for a 250/3000 die and then the F.L. Trim the neck to a few .000s long and then FL size in the 250/3000 F.L. die and retrim. I use Bullseye and fireform in the rifle using COW or a cheap bullet. Then size and do all the other steps and and reload with the 4350 load that I have been using since 1980. It is a lot of work but my rifle really likes this brass better than an easier case like the standard 250/3000 which fireforms readily in my chamber but doesn`t last nearly as long. I am still using cases I made in Hawaii although my bride blessed me with a set of Redding Case Forming dies a few years ago which makes life a whole lot easier.
Aloha, Mark

[Alan in GA]

and to think I sold off about 7 boxes (100 count) of Hornady 60 grain flat point jacketed bullets a dozen years ago! The throat of this barrel is good, meanining it is easy to reach with an 87 or 100 gr bullet. However that makes it impossible to seat a bullet short of the base of case neck and still fit before hitting the throat/lead which WOULD have made fireforming easy. Those short little 60 gr Hornady bullet would have worked perfect.
I've actually never tried the COW method,.. you say it works pretty good? I'd like to get about 20 cases formed so I can start testing this Lapua brass.

[WayneShaw]

COW is just an inert filler that fills the space, and presumably helps push the inside out better when fired. It just blows out the end with no harm. Some fireform without it. I won't hurt anything.

[Alan in GA]

I used COW as a filler for a low power load in a 458 when I was out of GREX. One note about COW - it rusted the chamber! I did not clean the bore for 3 days and found a light coat of rust. I was using smokeless powder, too! Guess a "clean immediately after" warning is important, too.
Will try Unique/COW and report.

[Daryl]

Isn't this merely a requirement for an outside neck turn - or am I missing something?

[reed1911]

While one would think it never needs to be said, if you do use the fast pistol powder, when you shoot, you need to do so either outside into the ground or at a good back stop. There is a small hole in the wall of the old shop from toilet paper. I'd have thought that it would not go through sheet metal, but indeed it did. Shot the rest into the sand backstop.