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  #11  
Old 09-16-2014, 04:01 PM
ramos ramos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by george ulrich View Post
Tuning with just powder is not going to work, seating depth seating depth seating depth is where you will find the magic, start with middle of the road powder charge and TUNE with seating depth after you get all bullets to make a round hole then play with powder AND neck tension....

Completely agree. However, if the OP tried 18.0 & 18.5 grains, there is a lot of ground in between those two charges and probably some room past 18.5 grains. The sweet spot for me was at 18.7 working up in 0.2 grain increments. I like to experiment with the powder & charge first, then COAL and finally, neck tension. Not the only way but, has worked well for a simpleton like me.
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  #12  
Old 09-16-2014, 05:40 PM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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Good thread and great points made.
My take on the best bullet is the old adage "the rifles like what they like". The V-Max is the first bullet I try in everything varmint related. The V-Max's were here first and I got started with them a fair bit before the others even showed up, they performed very well in my rifles so I shopped the sales and stocked up. To top it off, once the other projectiles did show up the V-Max has always been by far the least expensive with the exception of the Wholesale house special projectiles. Sad for my wallet is that I'd stocked up on the V-Max's before they changed the tip color for a discount marketing line and turned the red tipped V-max into a green tipped Z-Max and marketed them with "super" prices.
That said when it comes to the 40 grain V-Max vs the 39 grain BlitzKing in factory 1 in 12 twist barrels (read .204 Ruger) the 39 BlitzKing has always been the winner in the accuracy dept so I've stocked up on them too even though they were significantly more per round than the Z/V-Max.
As an aside I have a lot of 40 grain V-Max's and 40 grain BlitzKings in .22 caliber. My experience is that in the .22 40 grainer's the BlitzKing and V-Max in several rifles I've loaded em in are interchangeable bullets, group and point of aim doesn't change at all with all else being the same, most unusual. The big difference, aside from the Sierra's being $5.00 a box more money is the Sierras seem to have a bit tougher jacket and so I use them in the faster .22's and the V-Max's in the Hornets and K-Hornets.
Bottom line for me is I'll shoot whatever the rifle thinks is best but price matters so if performance is real close I'll go with the cheap option. I wish I hadn't stocked up so completely on V-Max's and 39 grain BlitzKing's before the Z-Max's came out .
The great thing is we sure have a lotta sub .22 caliber options today that we didn't have to awful far back..............except they are all out of stock at the stores and web stores if ya try and buy em .
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  #13  
Old 09-16-2014, 08:15 PM
george ulrich george ulrich is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montdoug View Post
The great thing is we sure have a lotta sub .22 caliber options today that we didn't have to awful far back..............except they are all out of stock at the stores and web stores if ya try and buy em .
Not sure how far back your thinking but when Mike Walker was alive he and his brother were doing the sub caliber thing back in the 60's, one of the last projects he showed me was a 12 and a 10 cal . we complain about components he had to make dies, barrels, jackets and extrude lead wire because none could be gotten small enough..
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  #14  
Old 09-16-2014, 08:17 PM
varmintshooter varmintshooter is offline
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You just have to love it when the cheapest bullets shoot the best. I am shooting the 32 z max's in one of my 204's, but I had to push them a little faster to get them to tighten up. My buddy could not get them to group at all, luck of the draw I guess. I tried them in my 20 vt ( 18.5 - 18.8 gr H4198 ) but had some crawlers ( groundhogs ) at ranges beyond 250-300 yds.
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  #15  
Old 09-16-2014, 11:41 PM
MFG_BOP MFG_BOP is offline
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SS427, have a look at my thread: HERE
I had similar results as yours. I am pretty happy with the Z-Max and dont see the need to change it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS427 View Post
I have been enjoying shooting Hornady's Z-max 32 gr bullets and 18 grains of H4198 in my Cooper .20 VarTarg, but always assumed I could do a little better with some more expensive and theoretically better bullets.

On Saturday I headed to the range with 32 gr Sierra BlitzKing loads to test various setting depths w/ 18.5 grains of H4198. I do testing with three shot groups and I was disappointed with the results. The best three shot group I got was .278 but a second three shot group at the same seating depth was .419. All the other seating depths produced groups in the .3 and .4 range.

I had 10 rounds of my Z-max load, so I figured I would see how they would compare. The first five shot group measured .269 and I followed that with a five shot group that measured .198. I can't tell you how happy I am with bullets that cost about $60 per five-hundred.

I haven't given up on the Sierra bullets yet. I have 25 rounds loaded with 18 grains of H4198 at various seating depths I will try next time I go to the range. If Sierra wants my .20 caliber bullet business these three shot groups need to be tighter and more consistent then the 18.5 grain loads.
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  #16  
Old 09-17-2014, 02:07 AM
Specter23 Specter23 is offline
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Too bad they can't be found in .17 anymore !!
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  #17  
Old 09-17-2014, 02:39 AM
SS427 SS427 is offline
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George, read my two previous posts and you will see that seating depth changes is exactly what I was testing. Started at jam and worked my way back in .004 increments. I use the technique described in Tony Boyer's book, using at least three powder charges and four of five seating depths.

I will try the 18 grain load, but if the Sierras don't shoot any better than with the 18.5 grain load I will write this bullet off as an accuracy load in this rifle. I've never found a bullet that doesn't shoot well with most loads all of the sudden tighten up to one hole. Even if it did, I wouldn't trust it to changing environmental factors like temp and humidity.

Jon, the Sierra Blitzking 32 grain bullets measure .314 from base to ogive and the Z-max measure .275. I see your posts on Accurateshooter so I'm sure you don't care what the base to tip measures.

MFG - enjoyed your thread. You are getting some excellent groups. Can you describe your rifle a little more?

I've heard the ultimate accuracy 20 caliber bullet is the 35 grain Berger. Anyone have comments on that bullet?
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  #18  
Old 09-17-2014, 06:46 AM
sicero sicero is offline
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When it comes to this reloading, we think we are trying everything but in reality there are hundreds if not thousands of combinations left to try with all the bullets,powders,primers,cases we have available today.
Then there is the guy who says, if it won't shoot this or that combination
there is something wrong with the rifle. Hogwash
How do we know when to blame larger or smaller groups on the bullet, rifle,
scope, front rest, back rest, stock, bedding,trigger, or a few other things.
If we are shooting outside, a little wind will rear it's ugly head.
Another eye opener is let your buddy shoot a couple groups half the size of yours with your rifle.
I have been doing this for more than half a century and I learn new things every day. I have to since I forget so many things.
I am happy when my rifle shoots well enough, that I feel misses are my fault
and not the rifle. Rant over. Fire away. Kenny
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  #19  
Old 09-17-2014, 02:11 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Default Zombie Max bullets

Quote:
Originally Posted by sicero View Post
When it comes to this reloading, we think we are trying everything but in reality there are hundreds if not thousands of combinations left to try with all the bullets,powders,primers,cases we have available today.
Then there is the guy who says, if it won't shoot this or that combination
there is something wrong with the rifle. Hogwash
How do we know when to blame larger or smaller groups on the bullet, rifle,
scope, front rest, back rest, stock, bedding,trigger, or a few other things.
If we are shooting outside, a little wind will rear it's ugly head.
Another eye opener is let your buddy shoot a couple groups half the size of yours with your rifle.
I have been doing this for more than half a century and I learn new things every day. I have to since I forget so many things.
I am happy when my rifle shoots well enough, that I feel misses are my fault
and not the rifle. Rant over. Fire away. Kenny
That hit it square on the head.. How many do blame every thing, from the brand of rifle, cartridge brass, bullet, etc. when the bottom line is the miss was their fault, trigger control, flinch, etc. Love that comment. Bill K
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  #20  
Old 09-17-2014, 05:50 PM
charlesasmith charlesasmith is offline
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Default Trouble with 39 gr Sierra 20 cal bullets.

Been testing loads for my 20 Practical using the 39 gr Sierra only.

Has anyone had the experience of the 39 gr Sierra having extreme ogive variations? Checked some from one of my 500 count boxes and they have varied 0.020". Most come in within 0.003-0.005 using my Davidson Seating Depth Checker. Getting some goofy 0.020+ to 0.020- readings when seating these bullets. Tried pulling the bullet and re-seating, but get the exact same OAL.

BTW are the repackaged Midway red tipped 20 gr 17 cal bullets the same as the Hornady Zombies? Have those to test in my 17AH.

Chuck

Last edited by charlesasmith; 09-17-2014 at 05:54 PM.
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