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Old 02-19-2013, 12:06 AM
stephen perry 1 stephen perry 1 is offline
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Default Steel & Carblde Steel Bullet Making Dies

I would like to start this Thread and comment later. Like to hear from Gerry M, George Ulrich, Al Nyhus, J. Valentine, Randy Robinett and others with info. This should be a good discussion.

Stephen Perry

Last edited by stephen perry 1; 02-19-2013 at 12:09 AM.
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  #2  
Old 02-19-2013, 09:55 AM
J. Valentine J. Valentine is offline
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What's the specific subject ? I am a bit baffled as to what you are asking.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:32 AM
stephen perry 1 stephen perry 1 is offline
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J. most bullet makers know one or the other. Thought those that had experience with both could explain the use of both. Items like construction, use of lube, cost, longevity, makers, and other stuff.

Stephen Perry
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:50 AM
BadgerBob BadgerBob is offline
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Again I'm new to all of this, but I have heard talk of Carbide bullet making dies. I would like to know the difference, I know there expensive and I doubt that I could ever afford a set but are they worth the extra expense? Will they last longer than steel dies (my dies where made in the 60's)? I just ordered a set of 20 cal dies, but what would I expect for cost if they where Carbide? Do they make a "better bullet" or more accurate bullet?

Oh ya one more thing when you get your finger in between the punch and the die and the handle falls, does it hurt as bad with Carbide? Just asking.

Bob
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:58 AM
george ulrich george ulrich is offline
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Stephen, as you know I do carbide,not to say I have never made steel,i have to me it's not as cost effective.but I probably should try steel again now that I've refined the process for carbide.or maybe play with some of the hybred carbide tool steel mixes.well lets see where this goes. george
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Old 02-21-2013, 01:29 AM
MIBULLETS MIBULLETS is offline
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I am using steel right now, but that's what I could afford. For my uses, I think they do just fine. Some differences I heard about steel vs carbide would be, you should use slightly more lube with steel. From what I understand the dies are made slightly different in respect to the way the point forming die is cut, mainly due to the hardness of the carbide die. Some say you can cut a better hole in tool steel, but it won't last as long. However the machining/cutting of carbide steel has come a long way and is very accurate as well. Note these are not my experiences, just things I've read and heard. Do you guys agree or disagree with any of it?
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Old 02-21-2013, 01:57 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Just a comment on longevity.

I have been using steel dies for quite a few years to swage my own 20 caliber bullets. The dies have been used a bunch and they still retain their original internal dimensions as far as a completed bullet goes. In a typical year I'll swage in the range of 700-1000 bullets using them.

If I was doing bullet swaging for a living and producing bullets in large quantities, I would probably invest in the more expensive carbide dies for their longer life.

For me, the steel dies that I have for my own use will probably last a lot longer than I will.

JMO - BCB
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:22 PM
george ulrich george ulrich is offline
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[ Some differences I heard about steel vs carbide would be, you should use slightly more lube with steel. From what I understand the dies are made slightly different in respect to the way the point forming die is cut, mainly due to the hardness of the carbide die. Some say you can cut a better hole in tool steel, but it won't last as long. However the machining/cutting of carbide steel has come a long way and is very accurate as well. Note these are not my experiences, just things I've read and heard. Do you guys agree or disagree with any of it?[/quote]

I guess it comes down to a couple of things.First would be cost,steel dies work fine good for around 250k or so carbide your into millions of bullets.so if you decide to sell out then the steel dies with a fair amount of use really won't bring much on the flip side carbide with a fair amount lets say 500k still have plenty of life.as for the manf. side I don't see any difference but I do mine different and would grind the steel ones also.which is really the only way to produce a round hole anyway. george
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:10 AM
Randy Robinett Randy Robinett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by george ulrich View Post
[ Some differences I heard about steel vs carbide would be, you should use slightly more lube with steel. From what I understand the dies are made slightly different in respect to the way the point forming die is cut, mainly due to the hardness of the carbide die. Some say you can cut a better hole in tool steel, but it won't last as long. However the machining/cutting of carbide steel has come a long way and is very accurate as well. Note these are not my experiences, just things I've read and heard. Do you guys agree or disagree with any of it?
I guess it comes down to a couple of things.First would be cost,steel dies work fine good for around 250k or so carbide your into millions of bullets.so if you decide to sell out then the steel dies with a fair amount of use really won't bring much on the flip side carbide with a fair amount lets say 500k still have plenty of life.as for the manf. side I don't see any difference but I do mine different and would grind the steel ones also.which is really the only way to produce a round hole anyway. george
[/quote]

I have owned (and still own) several sets of "steel" dies, as well as carbide dies, made by both Bill Niemi, and George Ulrich: with "good" jackets, all have made excellent bullets: capable of competing in registered group/score BR tournaments.

There are subtle differences - mostly regarding the amount of lube required, but, for a given die-set, that (lube) may vary from jacket Lot-to-Lot and, lube Lot-to-Lot. For either type of die material, I consider lube a necessary evil, using just enough to prevent bullets from sticking in the dies . . . some people prefer that their bullets "almost fall out of the die" . . and, their bullets still shoot . . . as with most things, there's a LOT of wiggle-room and few, if any, absolutes. RG

P.S. No, none of my steel die-sets are for sale.

Last edited by Randy Robinett; 03-11-2013 at 03:35 PM.
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  #10  
Old 03-20-2013, 01:37 PM
aaronraad aaronraad is offline
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I understand that most carbide dies work on a design with a carbide insert with a tool steel threaded housing.

Given the insert is a 'press fit', the engineer in me says the carbide insert should be finished with a radius on the 'buried' end. How do those carbide die makers among you finish the carbide insert?

I believe there is quite a 'crack' that takes place when the insert is press fitted into place. What size press do you use to perform the press-fit; and what tolerances do you use for the press fit?
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