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  #1  
Old 08-01-2011, 11:20 PM
zp3design zp3design is offline
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Default 17 AH Dies and Forming

I’m still waiting for the reamer to arrive so I can get busy on my first 17AH build. I can’t wait to get this thing built so I decided to work on the dies and case forming. I enjoy the machine work so I decided to make my own forming dies. This is my first wildcat so there were a few pieces of crumpled brass in the learning curve. I quickly got things (the angles involved) sorted out and everything is going real smooth.

I tried something I hadn’t seen before with good success in the forming dies. With the first die I made I noticed that the necks were not centered up perfect on the cases. I reasoned that this might be occurring because the neck wall thickness is not uniform around the case. So I machined a centering mandrel that closely fits the original Hornet case. This mandrel then closely fits inside the lower portion of the neck forming dies. In use I slide the mandrel over the case, slide the case into the shell holder and then form. The mandrel forces the new neck to be formed centered on the case. Well...centered as much as the clearances and spring back of the brass would allow. It worked great the necks are centered real well and hardly took anymore time than forming without. The mandrel fits in both of the forming dies.

The second stage forming die set the neck diameter about the same as a fired case and final sizing and resizing will be done with a 17Rem Lee collet die. Since the Hornet cartridge is shorter than the 17Rem you need to build a special shell holder which is longer and will extend a short ways inside the collet die. The only mod to the die was to drill the cap deeper to allow the decapping/sizing rod to travel higher into the die to accommodate the shorter hornet cartridge. Thanks to those on the forum who had talked about this method.

Seating is with the 17Rem seater die, only mod here was shortening the bottom of the die.

I’ve now ran most of my brass through the first stage die but will wait until the gun is built to form the second stage for a slight crush fit on bolt closing.

Thanks to those who sent me brass to drool on. That’s a piece of tred1956’s fire formed brass on the right hand side in the picture.

Can’t wait for that reamer to arrive!



zp3

Last edited by zp3design; 08-02-2011 at 06:15 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-02-2011, 12:47 AM
5mmgunguy 5mmgunguy is offline
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Thanks for the info on case forming. Looking forward to hearing how the project build goes.
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  #3  
Old 08-02-2011, 12:52 AM
Bandmiller2 Bandmiller2 is offline
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ZP3,some fine machine work,nice to see a fella doing his own, it adds alot to the enjoyment of wildcats.It also cuts down on the endless waiting for dies. Frank C.
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  #4  
Old 08-02-2011, 12:16 PM
samspade samspade is offline
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You took 17AH case forming to a new level!
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  #5  
Old 08-06-2011, 03:06 PM
wally bennett wally bennett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zp3design View Post
I’m still waiting for the reamer to arrive so I can get busy on my first 17AH build. I can’t wait to get this thing built so I decided to work on the dies and case forming. I enjoy the machine work so I decided to make my own forming dies. This is my first wildcat so there were a few pieces of crumpled brass in the learning curve. I quickly got things (the angles involved) sorted out and everything is going real smooth.

I tried something I hadn’t seen before with good success in the forming dies. With the first die I made I noticed that the necks were not centered up perfect on the cases. I reasoned that this might be occurring because the neck wall thickness is not uniform around the case. So I machined a centering mandrel that closely fits the original Hornet case. This mandrel then closely fits inside the lower portion of the neck forming dies. In use I slide the mandrel over the case, slide the case into the shell holder and then form. The mandrel forces the new neck to be formed centered on the case. Well...centered as much as the clearances and spring back of the brass would allow. It worked great the necks are centered real well and hardly took anymore time than forming without. The mandrel fits in both of the forming dies.

The second stage forming die set the neck diameter about the same as a fired case and final sizing and resizing will be done with a 17Rem Lee collet die. Since the Hornet cartridge is shorter than the 17Rem you need to build a special shell holder which is longer and will extend a short ways inside the collet die. The only mod to the die was to drill the cap deeper to allow the decapping/sizing rod to travel higher into the die to accommodate the shorter hornet cartridge. Thanks to those on the forum who had talked about this method.

Seating is with the 17Rem seater die, only mod here was shortening the bottom of the die.

I’ve now ran most of my brass through the first stage die but will wait until the gun is built to form the second stage for a slight crush fit on bolt closing.

Thanks to those who sent me brass to drool on. That’s a piece of tred1956’s fire formed brass on the right hand side in the picture.

Can’t wait for that reamer to arrive!



zp3
Hi zp3 nice set of dies i wish i was competent enough on a lathe to do work like that myself.
Do you know that i was thinking that you need a 17A/H crimp die and you look good enough to make one and of course to help your costs i would gladly buy one off you.
I would guess that more than one shooter would also like to have one i know that my 22Hornet came of age as it was when i started to crimp
Wally
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  #6  
Old 08-06-2011, 07:29 PM
trotterlg trotterlg is offline
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I bet a drop in insert to 17 for a 22 Hornet crimper would be dead easy to make. Larry
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  #7  
Old 08-08-2011, 05:16 PM
zp3design zp3design is offline
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Default Regarding Crimp Dies

Wally,

I currently only do work for self...but if I ever make some crimp dies I will give you a holler.

zp3

"Hi zp3 nice set of dies i wish i was competent enough on a lathe to do work like that myself.
Do you know that i was thinking that you need a 17A/H crimp die and you look good enough to make one and of course to help your costs i would gladly buy one off you.
I would guess that more than one shooter would also like to have one i know that my 22Hornet came of age as it was when i started to crimp
Wally"
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  #8  
Old 08-08-2011, 07:10 PM
ab_bentley ab_bentley is offline
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Crimping defeats the purpose of custom dies. It would be detrimental to accuracy and would cause over pressure blowing primers at least. Adam
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  #9  
Old 08-09-2011, 10:01 AM
wally bennett wally bennett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ab_bentley View Post
Crimping defeats the purpose of custom dies. It would be detrimental to accuracy and would cause over pressure blowing primers at least. Adam
Hi Ab

POINT 1
I dont have/cant afford custom dies.

POINT 2
It almost halved the groups on my 22H.

POINT 3
With any change in ammo re-loading the clever man reduces the charge and works back up.

Every man has a different aspect on loading but if it works for him then so be it.
Hand loading has so many variables it dangerous to assume that a safe and accurate load will always be safe with that load in that or any other rifle
Wally
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  #10  
Old 08-09-2011, 10:08 AM
wally bennett wally bennett is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: wrexham north wales U K
Posts: 1,914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zp3design View Post
Wally,

I currently only do work for self...but if I ever make some crimp dies I will give you a holler.

zp3

"Hi zp3 nice set of dies i wish i was competent enough on a lathe to do work like that myself.
Do you know that i was thinking that you need a 17A/H crimp die and you look good enough to make one and of course to help your costs i would gladly buy one off you.
I would guess that more than one shooter would also like to have one i know that my 22Hornet came of age as it was when i started to crimp
Wally"
Thanks zp3.
I have a thing about consistant neck tension for accuracy and i have tried everything from annealing after every shot to not annealing after the first one to fireform ( current method ) but still looking for the small vel spread that crimping my 22H gave me.
Wally
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