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Old 03-04-2019, 08:46 PM
gundog gundog is offline
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Default My letter to NAMMO/Berger

STOPPED buying BERGER stuff (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 ... Last Page)

In the thread listed above is Todd Kindlers letter to NAMMO who acquired Berger bullets.

I have written them and Berger a letter also. It may do no good, but at least I will have voiced my opinion to back up my no longer purchasing their products.

You can pull the email addresses from the E-mail if you are so inclined to E-mail your thoughts to NAMMO and Berger.

gundog

From: gundog
Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 11:13 AM
To: Raimo.Helasmaki@nammo.com ; Erkki.Seikkula@nammo.com ; Markku.Kortesoja@nammo.com ; morten.brandtzaeg@nammo.com ; GEsterline@CapstonePG.com
Subject: Small Caliber bullet decisions

Dear Sirs,

A few weeks ago I learned that the 55 Grain 20 caliber was being discontinued.

I began to think back to all the bullets that Berger used to make for the small caliber shooter. I then pulled out my first edition Berger Reloading Manual and a letter fell out.
It was from Walt Berger, giving me advice and direction on how to load the 30 grain 17 caliber bullets (both flat base and boat tail) in the 17 Remington Fireball.
He also wrote that there were two other Berger bullets that he suggested that I try. They were the 25 grain 17 caliber Target bullet and the 25 grain 17 caliber Varmint bullet.

Sadly both of the 30 grain bullets and the 25 grain Target bullets have been discontinued. They were exceptional shooting bullets.

I paged into the 20 caliber bullet data and found the load data for various rounds using 30 grain, 50 grain and 55 grain bullets. Again no longer made.

I have built several rifles specifically for the 50 and 55 grain. I found that the 55 grain in the 20 Titan, a Wild Cat Cartridge based on the 6.5 Grendel case and developed by Todd Kindler,
was deadly accurate. Four Prairie Dogs, on the same mound, fell silent at excess of 1200 yards. I have surpassed that distance with other rifles but of a larger caliber. My shooting
compatriots still talk of that four shot day using a 20 caliber bullet.

I have called several of the “boutique” small caliber bullet makers to see if they could make those bullets. I learned another disturbing fact.
When a bullet is discontinued by Berger, the J-4 Jackets, (arguably the best), used to make those bullets are either discontinued or the amounts required to place
an order are so extreme, that small manufacturers are basically out of business too.

Fortunately, I have the ability to re-barrel those guns when my bullet supply is gone, but that cartridge/bullet combination and others will become only a memory.

The “talk” on the small caliber shooting forums, has not been favorable about Berger. There is discussion of not only boycotting Berger, but also Lapua and Vihtavuori.

This decision, I’m sure, was a financial one on the part of your businesses.
Granted the “small caliber” shooters are a small part of your business, but looking back in not too distant past, it was a part that you were invested in.

I have been a part of the Shooting Industry and have seen how certain decisions can have a detrimental affect on that business.
To forget your roots in favor of the new shiny thing, (PRC and LRS),may be the new way to do business but it doesn’t make it right....

It’s hard to “Shoot the Best” when they are no longer available.

Enough of my rant.



Greg
Small Caliber Guns and number I’ve built and own
17 Ackley Bee(1), 17 Fireball (2), 17 Tactical (3), 17-223 (1), 20 Vartarg (4), 20-221(1), 20 Tactical(3). 20 Practical(2), 20 Titan(2), 204 Ruger (4)
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  #2  
Old 03-04-2019, 09:06 PM
Danny Danny is offline
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I don't think that I'd want a 55 gr. .20 varmint bullet. I am using, at max, 50 gr. .22 varmint bullets, and that is for my big .22s. For .223 and under, I am using .40 gr and less. I have to imagine that a lot of other varmint hunters are doing the same, and that is why they are being dropped.
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I video recorded all of my Highpower Rifle matches. Pretty soon I am going to watch them all in reverse order so that I can watch those F Class guys GO HOME and leave us alone so that we can shoot Highpower Rifle.
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Old 03-04-2019, 09:23 PM
L.Sherm L.Sherm is offline
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I wouldn't be to sure the 22 cal are not far behind the 20 cals as far as being dropped. First the 17's now 20's.
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Old 03-04-2019, 09:31 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Sherm View Post
I wouldn't be to sure the 22 cal are not far behind the 20 cals as far as being dropped. First the 17's now 20's.
You could be onto something there. Seems like everything now days is big calibers 6mm up and LONG range with heavy bullets. If you don't shoot LONG range, 1000 yds or more and make kills you are not shooting or hunting. Bill K
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Old 03-04-2019, 09:48 PM
cmatera cmatera is offline
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Everyone at my outdoor range thinks they're a Marine sniper.
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Old 03-04-2019, 09:58 PM
Hog Patrol Hog Patrol is offline
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There was a group buy on here a while back for .17s that Berger no longer made and it was successful. I think the minimum order was 10,000. Just thinking out loud here but I wonder if that could be done for the discontinued heavy .20s. A one time deal could be enough to keep guys going for a good while.
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  #7  
Old 03-04-2019, 10:15 PM
410gauge 410gauge is offline
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This bullet situation is becoming a pain on both the long side and the short side of colony varmint shooting. I shoot around (600) rds of 20 cal. 55 gr Bergers a year (all at 600-1000yds)...but mainly shoot the 32 gr 20 cal Z-Max (around 5,000 bullets) inside of 400 yds. I talked to Hornady at the Safari Club show a month or so ago. They've quit making that bullet. To me it shot as well as the 32 gr V-Max bullet at a cheaper price. BUMMER! They at least still offer the 32 gr V-Max...but for how much longer? Like Sherm, I'm really concerned the bullet manufacturers will reduced availability of the 17's, 20's, and possibly the 22's. I'd sure hate to go back to nothing but the 22's and the 6mm's. My fondness of the 20 cals is what keeps me fooling with this type varmint shooting. 410gauge
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Old 03-05-2019, 12:13 AM
AlbertaAl AlbertaAl is offline
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[quote=gundog;279645]STOPPED buying BERGER stuff (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 ... Last Page)

In the thread listed above is Todd Kindlers letter to NAMMO who acquired Berger bullets.

I have written them and Berger a letter also. It may do no good, but at least I will have voiced my opinion to back up my no longer purchasing their products.

You can pull the email addresses from the E-mail if you are so inclined to E-mail your thoughts to NAMMO and Berger.

gundog

From: gundog
Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 11:13 AM
To: Raimo.Helasmaki@nammo.com ; Erkki.Seikkula@nammo.com ; Markku.Kortesoja@nammo.com ; morten.brandtzaeg@nammo.com ; GEsterline@CapstonePG.com
Subject: Small Caliber bullet decisions

Well done... taking the time to speak your mind.
I hope they appreciate the interest that you've shown in their products for yourself and for the rest of us.
Possibly they'll respond with a solution and not with apologies which is probably all we can expect.
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  #9  
Old 03-05-2019, 12:24 AM
AlbertaAl AlbertaAl is offline
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ON the weekend, I met an Alberta, Canada bullet maker who expressed an interest in manufacturing a 20Cal bullets
I suggested a product in the range of 38, 39 or 40grains which would stabilize in factory 1:12 twist and provide an expanded market place.
I didn't want to push the 50 or 55 gr. idea due to such a small market for that weight... at least not till he gets the 38-40 gr. off the ground.
I provided him with samples of the Berger 35, 40, and 50 gr. also 39SBK
I don't know anything about bullet making so I can't explain his process other then he makes his own jackets.
He said shipping outside of Canada wouldn't be complicated and would appreciate the expanded market place.
I hope he was serious about accepting this task ...
All I can say is...bye bye berger
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  #10  
Old 03-05-2019, 04:50 PM
moorepower moorepower is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 410gauge View Post
This bullet situation is becoming a pain on both the long side and the short side of colony varmint shooting. I shoot around (600) rds of 20 cal. 55 gr Bergers a year (all at 600-1000yds)...but mainly shoot the 32 gr 20 cal Z-Max (around 5,000 bullets) inside of 400 yds. I talked to Hornady at the Safari Club show a month or so ago. They've quit making that bullet. To me it shot as well as the 32 gr V-Max bullet at a cheaper price. BUMMER! They at least still offer the 32 gr V-Max...but for how much longer? Like Sherm, I'm really concerned the bullet manufacturers will reduced availability of the 17's, 20's, and possibly the 22's. I'd sure hate to go back to nothing but the 22's and the 6mm's. My fondness of the 20 cals is what keeps me fooling with this type varmint shooting. 410gauge
Hornady quit making the green tips. They are not dropping the 32 Vmax, just quit putting the green tips in the Vmax and selling them cheaper. Same bullet different color tip. When I bought my 7SAUM, I bought it knowing that I may never be able to buy brass or ammo for it, so I bought 400 pieces of brass, so "if" they never made it again I would still be able to shoot the gun. For future reference "if" I build a gun around a unicorn bullet, "I" will buy as many bullets as I think will burn out the barrel, so I am not stuck with a gun and no bullet. As far as mfgrs. getting rid of .22's, they may drop some really low volume sellers, but by volume I would put my money on them not dropping .22's. I really feel for those that built a gun around that bullet, but "if" there is truly enough demand for a 55 grain bullet, someone will make it. Hopefully even if it is a run every couple of years.
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