Saubier.com  



Go Back   Saubier.com > Saubier.com Forums > Small Caliber Load Data

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-25-2017, 02:34 PM
rhouser rhouser is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 41
Default Can my math be Right?

I am a long time reloader, but, new to 17 H Hornet. I am starting load development and was trying to decide how big a powder jump to make for my first ladder.

I decided to just look at some numbers.
For a .308 with Varget if I wanted to work at 42 grains, I would go a .3 increment (just me).

I divided .3 by the 42 grain start point and get .00714.... I then divided .1 grain by the starting point of 11.6 grains. I get .00862...

I believe what I am seeing means that .1 gr change in my h hornet load will be as significant as .3 grains in my 308 load.

This makes me glad I checked. .2 grains could have pushed me right past a node as well as into overpressure.

Is my logic right? Are there other mitigations? Is anyone else developing in a hornet size case with greater than .1 gr increments?

I load .300 Rum and .375 H&H so am comfortable in the 70 loads to the pound world. I load the .22 Hornet with little gun, but, have the built in safety provided by the powder in that cartridge (fill it up and stuff on whatever you feel like using).

This little hornet is a true bottle neck and I believe can be overpressured with both LIL GUN and the CFE BLK I am starting with.

Please let me know what you consider acceptable practice with a 17 Hornet sized case.

Thanks in Advance.
rch
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-25-2017, 02:59 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: N.E. Kommie Kalifornia
Posts: 6,304
Default Can my math be right ?

You are correct in that the small case's i.e. Hornet, etc. need to be worked up, on loads, in much smaller amounts. Pressure will spike very quickly in them.
So, yes, work up very slow and be real cautious. Safe and sane, for both the welfare of you and the firearm. Bill K
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-25-2017, 03:45 PM
Hog Patrol Hog Patrol is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: DE
Posts: 1,481
Default

Not a chemical engineer but I don't believe you can do a linear comparison with smokeless powder. Home brew math calculations in this game can have devastating consequences. Having said that, using a program like Quickload can at least get you in the ballpark. It's what I use.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-26-2017, 12:12 PM
rhouser rhouser is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 41
Default

Thanks to Bill K and Hog Patrol for responding.

I have done load development for a bunch of cartridges over the 45+ years I have been reloading. I have never dealt with a bottle neck this small.

I was kind of hoping for a "standard practice" suggestion from a current hornet shooter or developer. EG - Yes, I use .1 gr increments for all my hornet ladder work.

Not happening I guess. Worst that can happen using .1g instead of .2g is I waste a few more primers.

This is a wonderful site, and I am new. Please excuse the "new guy" for a few "less brilliant" posts.

v/r rch
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-26-2017, 01:46 PM
SmokinJoe SmokinJoe is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 982
Default

I believe that you are thinking correctly, especially when you approach the upper window for the load. Something else to consider is the temperature at which you are likely to use the load; try to do your testing in similar conditions. These tiny, high performance cartridges are fun to play with but they can be pretty sensitive to things that aren't quite so critical in other larger cartridges.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-25-2017, 08:01 PM
Dean2 Dean2 is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,497
Default

.1 is what I sue for small case loads. Hard to measure much tighter than that and have never had .1 grain go from good to dangerous. It always shows evolving signs, flat primer followed by crater, followed by ejector marks followed by stiff bolt, loose primer pocket and head/rim expansion. I use Lil'Gun in my 17 Hornet and hit max load well below published max. I load 9.6 grains at 3600 fps, published max is 10 or more. A Chronograph is invaluable for telling you what pressures you are pushing as the velocity really does tell the story.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-25-2017, 11:46 PM
TinMan TinMan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,800
Default

And also be careful what brass your are using. I don't have a 17HH, but standard 22 Hornet brass can vary over a 1gr in capacity between the different makers.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-28-2017, 05:23 PM
moorepower moorepower is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,549
Default

You better have a really really good powder measure if you are loading to .1g. I am not sure ANY factory brass offered is uniform enough to give you any really accurate findings at .1g variation.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-28-2017, 09:24 PM
rhouser rhouser is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 41
Default

Moorepower, I am using my Harrels pistol measure to throw the CFE BLK. It is working out well at almost exactly 3 clicks for 1/10 grain (as advertised).

I am using a charge master scale and once I think I have the measure set, I throw 6 charges into the pan and weigh it. I divide the weight by 6 and find my average throw weight. I will generally confirm my throw by doing 3 sequences of the 6 charge averaging. If in am within a .03 grain between each of the 3, then I judge I am good to go.

Now, all that said, I am finding that I may be as well off at .2 grain increments, but, since I am already slightly above published velocities and load data, I am walking softly.

TINMAN, I am using nothing but new Hornady Hornet 17 brass. It's availability was one of the reasons I jumped in at this time. I bought 500 new casings in one pass hoping for the same production run. I do accept your point that case to case irregularities potentially cause more variance than .1gr powder differences between cases.

When loading full size cases I subscribe to the idea that it takes a .2gr minimum increase in powder for a measurable change in effect.

I have found that the CFE BLK lets me exceed the 20 gr published velocities for the Hornady VMAX Super Performance. I am not happy with the CFE BLK for the 25 gr bullets in my CZ 527. I am going to try the N-120 loads and see if they do a little better in my gun with the 25 Hornady HP, the 25 Berger, the 25 Reed, the 26 Reed, and the 27 Reed.

Thanks to all that make this forum great.

v/r rch

Last edited by rhouser; 12-01-2017 at 11:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-28-2017, 11:38 PM
william t. oviatt william t. oviatt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lander, Wyoming
Posts: 2,524
Default

First off: Welcome!

On the increments of powder for loading the 17HH, Everything I have ever read on all the 17 Hornet cartridges, and what routine I follow also, is .1 (1/10) increments...mainly based upon most commercial metering machines say they really cannot guarantee consistent measurement beyond this level anyway, and recommend frequent checking of multiple load offerings, to make sure the weight is correct (at least the instructions say this).

That said, to me Lil' Gun is kind of in a "Class of its own" in small cartridges...
Caution and attention needs to be at their peak with this powder.

i do like the new CFE BLK powder tho, it works well in the little Hornet powder-capacity cases, and is a lot cleaner, too!

Bill
__________________
"Burn Powder, Not Comrades"!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.