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  #1  
Old 11-16-2017, 06:59 AM
ben lurkin ben lurkin is offline
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Default 17 Fireball or 17 Remington?

So, I am looking at building a single-shot 17 cal varmint rig this spring and am considering the 17 Fireball or a 17 Remington. I had a 17 Fireball a number if years ago in a Remington but it was a miserable thing! The chamber was sloppy and oversized. I had the barrel set back and rechambered to tighten the tolerances only to find out the chamber was cut off-center. It never would shoot so I had the barrel replaced and it's now a 204 Ruger.

I have a CZ Varmint 17 Hornet in the stable already and several 223s and 222s in both varmint and sporter configurations. This new one will be for taming the ground squirrels. I typically take the CZ 17 and either of my two model 21 Coopers in 223 and 204. I've not had a 17 Remington.

So, the $500 question. Which way do I go. 17 Fireball or the 17 Remington? Accuracy is most important since we typically shoot around the alfalfa pivots in NV where shots can be at almost any distance you please. One thing I do love, however, is how wickedly fast and accurate that 204 Cooper is! Is one more finicky than the other?

Decisions decisions! Please advise if you have had these two (or a 17 mach IV) and can compare and contrast them.

-BL
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  #2  
Old 11-16-2017, 09:40 AM
1coolcat 1coolcat is offline
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I love the 17 fireball , it's fun to shoot, very efficient and fast,fast,fast..
It's kind of tricky to form good brass for in my opinion.
(BUT)...
I start with great Lapua 221 fireball brass, and once you get your process for necking down case's your go to go..
I have fat fingers so reloading could be challenging at times..haha.
I personally believe the 17 FB is more inherently accurate then the 17 REM. ..
Just my opinion..
If you don't want the hassle of necking down, and case forming, get the 17 REM..
But I personally enjoy the reloading challenge, and process so it's no biggie for me..

Have you considered the .20 vartarg..less wind drift, and superbly accurate. Also much easier to neck size down to 20 Cal vs. 17 Cal.
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  #3  
Old 11-16-2017, 11:41 AM
Hog Patrol Hog Patrol is offline
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Another vote for the Fireball BUT with the brass situation for both calibers, almost none available, a .17 wildcat may be another option.
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  #4  
Old 11-16-2017, 12:41 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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I have all three that you mentioned, and for me they are all equally capable as far as accuracy is concerned. Accuracy is more a function of the quality of the rifle components and how well they are put together than one cartridge being "intrinsically more accurate" than another. But that debate will rage on much like the age-old religious debate about how many angels one can put on the head of a pin.

I like larger case 17 cartridges more because they give you more options in bullet weights that you can shoot effectively. In my world, the FB and the M4 are relegated to 20 grain and lesser weight bullets to be effective. Cartridges like the 17 Rem and similar sized wildcats can effectively handle 25-30 grain bullets easily without giving up the very high velocity which is the reason, at least for me, for one to shoot the 17's anyway.

Pick your poison based on what you want to do. If you're just going to shoot colony varmints, the smaller case might be your friend for obvious reasons. If coyotes will be a regular pursuit, the larger case with heavier bullets will probably be a better choice. In comparing, both are great 17 caliber cartridges. Yet they are different enough in my eyes to warrant having both.

As for brass availability, both are available in spite of the horror stories you read on the internet.. You'll just have to look for either one once you make a decision. I have a friend who I like to sit around with while discussing many different assorted subjects (both rifle/hunting related and not rifle/hunting related) over coffee or a cold beverage. Several years ago we were discussing the 'best" cartridge that we needed that year to go forth and slay "a Diplodocus a Brachiosaurus or any of the other vegitarian (sic) sauropods running the woods" near us (that are all found most years in large numbers around my AO), and I mentioned the 6.5x55 Swede. His first response was the internet favorite: "You'll look forever for brass". Later on I decided to get the rifle, and within 15 minutes of my house on my first scavenger hunt, I found 300 rounds of 6.5x55 Swede brass in 3 100 rounds/each dust covered packages of new brass. I recognize that I might live where odd things are more readily available than you might find them just anywhere, but if you want it, brass will find you.

Pretty much the same arguments can be made for both the smaller and larger cased 20 caliber cartridges, if you're so inclined. All of them are great too, but for widely differing reasons in my mind.

JMO - BCB
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Last edited by Bayou City Boy; 11-16-2017 at 01:48 PM. Reason: added material............
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  #5  
Old 11-16-2017, 01:12 PM
JohnHenry JohnHenry is offline
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Of the three cartridges mentioned, I favor the 20 VT and the 17 FB. However if I wanted a reliable repeater, I would opt for the 17 Rem. I feel ones repeater action options are more extensive with a 17 Rem.
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Last edited by JohnHenry; 11-16-2017 at 01:20 PM.
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  #6  
Old 11-16-2017, 01:55 PM
coyotespotter coyotespotter is offline
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For gopher shooting volume, I would go with a 17 or 20 based on the 223 brass. The brass savings would pay for a custom barrel and reamer rental. You could run a 10 twist, .17 20 gr vmax with blc2. Feed problem should not be a issue through any good 223 action.
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  #7  
Old 11-16-2017, 02:23 PM
william t. oviatt william t. oviatt is offline
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On what you have proposed to use the rifle for, you can mix your brain into a turbulent froth trying to pick the "Right" cartridge.

Since you already have a 17 HH, I would heartily recommend the 17 Fireball....for the shooting you will be putting the rifle to, the 17FB will be more than enough and far more efficient.

What you gain in velocity in the 17 Rem is not worth the extra powder to gain 150 to 200 fps. AND, the Fireball and handle the heavy bullets just as well and the 17 Rem.

I shot a Cooper 17Fireball for several seasons exclusively with 30 grain bullets in hot prairie dog shooting and it will do all the 17 Rem can do...If you were looking for a dedicated coyote gun, yes, the 17 Rem would be a good choice....but I would still go with the Fireball.

I have shot extensively here in Wyoming. thousands of colony critters and maybe dozens of coyotes, and the 17 fireball is all the performance you need in a maximum 17 cartridge. Study the pressures of the 17 Rem and the 17FB and you will see, not enough difference to justify the powder.

Fireball brass is everywhere, and easy to make from any 223 or 222.

Again, for the shooting you describe, get a well fabricated 17 Fireball and you will never wish for ANYTHING that burns more powder! Go with no slower than 1/9 twist, and you will shoot with authority/performance, any bullet commercially available on the market.

Opinions, are so individual and the mental synergy when shooting is what drives us in enjoying theses small caliber rigs. This is why there are so many different "Favorites"!

I have said many times here, that the main issue is what puts the biggest smile on one's face when you pull the trigger! This would be "THE PERFECT" cartridge, hands down, over anything else!!!!!!

So, you put yourself into the thoughts of the recommendations made here, and then chose the best that suits how you will use the final choice!

Like all the others', this is just my thoughts on what you asked advice on...

With humble respect,

Bill
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Last edited by william t. oviatt; 11-16-2017 at 02:34 PM.
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  #8  
Old 11-16-2017, 03:14 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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In a couple of my reloading manuals, the 17 M4 is capable of 3700 fps while the 17 FB is capable of 3750 fps with 25 grain bullets. And that is with maximum stated loads in both cartridges.

In contrast, in the same manuals, the 17 Remington is easily capable of 4K+ fps with 25 grain bullets, and that is not a max load for a powder I use a bunch.

A run over a chrony will pretty much attest to those differences. For my purposes, those differences are enough for me to still like both the small and the large cased 17's for different reasons. In the 20 grain bullet range in the smaller cases against a 25 grain bullet in the 17 Remington, the velocity differences are less between the cartridges. Again verified over a chrony.

A very small few grains of powder is insignificant if you're simply playing with small cartridges anyway. I like efficiency in some cartridges but I choose others for better performance in terms of velocity for hunting purposes. And rifle to rifle variances with the same cartridges are also in play.

Again, pick what best suits your needs. Each will easily suffice, whether colony varmints and/or larger stuff is on the menu. I was in Wyoming again several times last year and this year too, even near the Lander area for several days last year before moving on, and those coyotes up there died without a whimper with whatever they were shot with. But I've known that for years from actually having lived and hunted in the state for a lot of years of my life. Southern Colorado is penciled in right now on my travel agenda for this winter's coyote hunting. As will be south Texas if you like shooting scrawny coyotes that never fur up in the winter.

I'm betting that's pretty universal performance anywhere you could go with a good bullet in a 17 caliber rifle. YMMV...........as they say.

-BCB
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Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and just get used to the idea.

Going keyboard postal over something that you read on the internet is like seeing a pile of dog crap on the sidewalk and choosing to step in it rather than stepping around it.

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Last edited by Bayou City Boy; 11-16-2017 at 03:20 PM.
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  #9  
Old 11-16-2017, 03:44 PM
moorepower moorepower is offline
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If you are just shooting GS, the Fireball will work fantastically with the 20 grain bullets. Less powder= less barrel heat=more shooting. I believe someone on here actually reforms and sell .17FB brass from LC cases. You have a single shot rifle, so you are set. I am guessing that LC brass in a fireball would have great case life. You have the .204 for larger vermin.
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  #10  
Old 11-16-2017, 03:55 PM
kenbro kenbro is offline
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Not too long ago, there was a thread on this forum about 17s, and 17HMR was being touted as a good ‘yote caliber.
Ken.
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