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  #1  
Old 10-05-2017, 05:29 AM
Ratbuster Ratbuster is offline
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Default New 17HH build, FAIL

In a recent post I mentioned I just finished a 17 Hornet build for my son-in-law Brandon, based on a Savage 12 action using a PT&G custom Savage Hornet bolt head. Components include a Green Mountain barrel, Northland Shooters Supply ground lug and precision nut, Boyds Pro Varmint stock, pillared and epoxy bedded. This is a single shot using a SharpShooters single shot tray, angled upwards so the cartridge slides into the chamber without resistance. Loading and extraction work flawlessly.

Problem is it shoots horribly with factory ammo, groups average over 1.5" at 100 yards. I think the barrel is a dud. I believe the chambering job was done to perfection. The gunsmith/machinist is top rate and uses two 4 jaw chucks to ensure the bore is perfectly square with chamber. The fired brass has absolutely zero runout in the neck, verifying the quality of the chambering. The barrel nut is tight, muzzle crown looks clean, barrel is fully floated, action screws properly torqued. I tried both 25 grain HP and 20 grain Vmax.

Headspacing is off the shoulder; the shoulder moves .002 to .0025 on first firing.

The barrel has about 30 rounds through it As bad as it shoots I am doubtful "breaking in the barrel" by sending a bunch more rounds down it is going to make it shoot tight groups.

My son-in-law will only shoot factory ammo so improvements from reloading is not an option.

The smith charged a bunch for the chambering, contour. threading and crown so Brandon is into the barrel for $500. I know GM barrels are not considered the absolute best but I have heard many positives about them. Originally Shilen agreed to do a prefit using our reamer but they backed out because it was not to SAAMI spec.

One suggestion is to lap the barrel. Another is to slug it. Green Mountain said send it back but I think they will just offer a replacement which means he would be out another $350 for machine work and I am nervous about getting the same result again.

I'm looking for suggestions as to which direction to head now.

BTW, I would like to post a pic of the target and rifle but when I choose the "Manage Attachments" tab I do not see any option for actually attaching them.
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  #2  
Old 10-05-2017, 05:45 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
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Default

Too bad he's not a reloader.
I've found "sorting bullets"
makes a big difference.

I don't know what's available in factory ammo
for this. Have you measured the twist?
Knowing for sure, then with Mike @ GM's help
you can know what wt bullet to use.
might be another brand even if the same wts
was tried.

I've only used on GM barrel that I know of. Bought a
blank .40 and turned it on my lathe on one end for a
Blackhawk revolver change over. Haven't shot it at any
distance yet. And it's not a target gun anyway. shoots
just fine up close except the full case of #9 is way too
light a load for the gun. THat don't have anything to do
with the barrel though.

Good luck, and let's hear what you find helps.
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Old 10-05-2017, 12:17 PM
Double D Double D is offline
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Hang onto that reamer until you get things sorted out.

I wouldn't write it off until you try some reloads.

Tell the reamer maker, Pacific, I believe, or was JGS that Shilen says that reamer is SAAMI!

I refused to buy that reamer untill they had the SAAMI spec.
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Last edited by Double D; 10-05-2017 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 10-05-2017, 12:49 PM
Hal Hal is offline
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I would slug the barrel and see if it's loose at the crown. You might be able to shorten the barrel to a tight spot and it might shoot better.
Shortening or lapping is your cheapest fix.

Hal
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Old 10-05-2017, 01:14 PM
dungheap dungheap is offline
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What about the trigger, and what kind of scope is on it? If it's a factory Model 12 trigger, the group size makes sense. What's the barrel twist rate?
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  #6  
Old 10-05-2017, 03:18 PM
sicero sicero is offline
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If I had to use factory loads, I might only have a couple rifles that
shoot under an inch.

I probably have a couple thousand tied up in reloading stuff,so I am not so restricted.

Either shoot it as is or reload.

I'm betting he can't shoot any better than 1&1/2"field conditions.

There are people who custom load. Find a load?? Good luck Kenny
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  #7  
Old 10-05-2017, 03:49 PM
Ratbuster Ratbuster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double D View Post
Hang onto that reamer until you get things sorted out.

I wouldn't write it off until you try some reloads.

Tell the reamer maker, Pacific, I believe, or was JGS that Shilen says that reamer is SAAMI!

I refused to buy that reamer untill they had the SAAMI spec.
Douglas,

Your reamer is a SAAMI reamer. When I said Shilen would not do the chambering because it does not meet SAAMI spec is because it's a custom chambering for the Savage action that would be have to be done without the recess in the breech, resulting in a non SAAMI spec.

Thanks for allowing me to hold onto your reamer for the time being. It looks like I may not need it though. Doing a web search this morning for "Savage Prefits" I found a new barrel company in Utah called Match Grade Machining that is willing to provide a finished stainless barrel for the same price as what we paid our local gunsmith for the machine work on that GM barrel. They have a 17HH reamer and will stand behind their finished product.
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  #8  
Old 10-05-2017, 03:58 PM
Ratbuster Ratbuster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dungheap View Post
What about the trigger, and what kind of scope is on it? If it's a factory Model 12 trigger, the group size makes sense. What's the barrel twist rate?
Dungheap,

Barrel twist is 9, scope is fine. I do not agree with your assessment on the trigger. I have consistently shot under 1 MOA groups with a 3 lb trigger on a precision AR. This Hornet has a modified Varmint Accutrigger that breaks at 1 to 1.25 lbs. I own a Criterion barrelled .223 Savage with the same trigger and it groups an average .5 MOA.

Phil
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  #9  
Old 10-05-2017, 04:07 PM
Big Joe Big Joe is offline
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Default Almost the same problems here

My son in law bought one of the Savage model 25s in 17 Hornet and he does not reload either and they live to far away for me to economically reload for him. But all that said to ask this which brand of ammo if your SIL using? My SIL has swapped to the American Eagle brand and after I snickered and huff hawed about it, it actually shoots much better than with the Hornady ammo. He was getting a sorry 1 1/2 to 1 3/4in @ 100yds with the Hornady and it now shoots at or under 1in. Between us, it had me going I was sure it should shoot better than it did. I have reloaded some for him but he causes fits to no end -- think of a city kid with a new toy. He does not even pick up the brass, just leaves it laying. My daughter has got on to me several times for making statements to that fact. I have ask him several times "are you sure your a real conservative?" That gets me the eye from both wife and daughter. He is a great man in all other ways, keeps my daughter happy(full time job on its own) and is a better than great dad, makes my daddy days look very poor.... I am a great grand dad though, I have got the spoil em then send them home down to a science....
Just saying if he is not going to reload may need to shop the manufactures to see if that helps this rifle like it did his. I cant offer much else the only 17s I own are the 17 fireball and the 17 TCM (can thank sgts on here for that jewel), but the 17 TCM does wear a GM barrel and I have had no problems with it. I did lap it myself just to make sure it was lapped.
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  #10  
Old 10-05-2017, 04:07 PM
Ratbuster Ratbuster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sicero View Post
If I had to use factory loads, I might only have a couple rifles that
shoot under an inch.

I probably have a couple thousand tied up in reloading stuff,so I am not so restricted.

Either shoot it as is or reload.

I'm betting he can't shoot any better than 1&1/2"field conditions.

There are people who custom load. Find a load?? Good luck Kenny
Sicero,

I have owned several rifles that shoot one MOA with factory ammo...a CZ 223, CZ 17HH, SAKO. I have seen many others. I would accept one MOA. This gun shoots a bunch of 2" groups, total unacceptable for a varmint gun. I built my son in law a 6BR Savage that consistently shoots .5-.75 MOA with factory Lapua ammo.

I can easily shoot under .5" at 100 in the field with my varmint rifles, do it all the time when checking scope zero. Of course I'm talking off a bench. My son-in -law is as good of a shot as I am.

Custom loading is too expensive for the high volume shooting we do. I shoot and reload 10,000 rounds a year just for myself; I am not going to do his too.
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