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Old 03-12-2008, 02:55 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
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Default lead wire making

Have been doing other things lately and not getting on the computer much.

last night I was on castboolits.gunloads.com/swaging threads.
Someone posted a picture of a massive die he'd made that swage's hunks of lead into long piece's of lead wire.

Do believe I understand the way it's made now and am thinking about making a setup before long.

Bore a bottomed hole about 1- 1/2" dia with at least an inch thickness in the head left. Drill core dia. hole/s in this area. Fill the cavity with hunks of lead. Ram that's turned to just slip fit into this hole is jacked into it with a heavy hydraulic jack. 12-20 ton. The force has to be pretty heavy, so everything has to be built strong enough to hold up against such force and not bust things.

The lead is extruded out these hole's into strings of wire. Once you're done. Just use those lead wires as bullet cores.

Check it out yourself and see what you think. Would be a cheap way to produce this expensive, sometimes hard to find wire.
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Old 03-12-2008, 12:25 PM
REM REM is offline
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George

I have seen this done at the Hornady plant and it is a quite simple operation
BUT the amount of pressure necessary and the strength needed of the components used would make it difficult to do at home I would think.
Would be interesting to try though. If the dia of the die container were kept small enough maybe the pressure needed would be workable.

Richard
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Old 03-12-2008, 02:25 PM
Mntngoat Mntngoat is offline
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I have lots of lead entrails left over from making cores could these be melted down and cast into wire to be run back through the coring die?

ML
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Old 03-12-2008, 05:50 PM
DittoHead DittoHead is offline
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Question Totally uninformed point of view here but...

Wouldn't you have to melt all your scrap and mix it so you end up with consistent weight from one part of the wire to another?

Or is this just assumed?

I'm probably putting my foot in my mouth, but this whole bullet-making thing interests me.
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:55 PM
george ulrich george ulrich is offline
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george yes this is how it works. it does take a whole lot of pressure so be careful. you can't move this to quickly its kind of slow but it can be done. a little tip heat lead to around 200- 250 degrees it will flow a whole lot easier. michael, yes squirts can be reclaimed and reextruded. or you can give to a buddy to make fishing jigs. george
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Old 03-13-2008, 12:31 AM
Bulletsmith Bulletsmith is offline
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I made a lead extruder about 5 years ago.It was quite a process to get everything working correctly.I originally had a 6 " piston with a 16" stroke.I welded the frame together,basically it is a massive o frame idea that sits horizontal.The main frame was built from 14" I-beam.I then ran 1" steel plates full length of the I -beam which is 8' long.Over top of the piston to complete the o frame,I took a piece of 4"x2" flatsteel and welded it in place. The nozzle was machined with changable dies that were needed for wire for various calibers.Then 4 molds were machined smoth for billets which hold about 14 lbs of lead.The trial run was a bitter disapointment,the ram which I ran up to 3100 psi did not extrude anything below .245 wire.The 6 inch ram is equivalant to what is used in a 50 ton press.The next step was to get a custom built 8.5" ram built to fit in the o-frame press, which replaced the 6".I now can build wire from .165 all the way up to .650 for the big uns.I also have found by putting the billets on a heater for 10 minutes really helps pressure needs,between the heat and the big ram,2600 psi is all that is need to extrude.I take all the tailings from the squirt dies and always remelt them.
The piston to cylinder fit is about 10thou clearance,even with a fit that tight a little always leaks back and should be cleaned off between billets.A little swage lube put on the billet really helps as well.This rig has really worked well,having several tons behind it allready
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Old 03-13-2008, 06:40 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
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I got this info/idea from castboolits as mentioned. There's a picture there of a set up powered by a 12 ton hyd jack, hand pumped. He makes about 1"x4" slugs to run thru at a time.

Since I have several 20ton jacks and welding equip, lathe, and hunks and piles of steel. Am figuring to turn the dies from heavy round, ram would be about 2" dia with just enough pocket in the bottom to hold the jacks ram steady. By the time there's much pressure applied the ram would be into the hole in the top die far enough it couldn't come apart to be of any danger.

Bulletsmith: sounds like we have the same habits!! Never ever go too lightly. What dia's are your wires??

Hey, how about some pictures of this extruder you've got. Might make for some idea's among the rest of us.

I was figuring to turn the head die out of 3 or 4" round about 4-6" long. Leave at least an inch head over the cavity and drill 3-6 hole's of bullet size's in that. Say: 2-.17's, 1 or 2 for 22's, a 30, 40-45 cal.
That way, there'd be enough output to make it worthwhile messing with. No bigger than the hole's would be over an area of 2" dia. It shouldn't weaken the head of the die enough to matter. Inch thick steel will hold a bunch of pressure. But, a 20ton jack would put out a bunch too. But, this many hole's should allow the pressure to bleed off quick enough as the lead flows thru them.
I'm open to ideas and suggestions. Right now, I'm out of commission until the middle of next week. Have just started gathering iron. man said he'd get a hunk of round cut off for me by Tuesday. Am figuring on welding the framework out of 1"x3-4" flat bar on edge against the pressure. May pin the die in place, or weld a bracket to it to hold it in place. But, will allow it to float around a bit.

Lube is a must I'm sure, as this other post stated. GU, thanks for the warming up tip.
Thank you all for the input.
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Old 03-13-2008, 01:33 PM
Bulletsmith Bulletsmith is offline
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Georgeld,

The dies will make .165,.180,.200,.210,.245,.265,.360.425,.452,.500,. and finally .650.The billets are 3" x10" and thats why so much pressure is needed to extrude.The orfice is contained in the housing with 12 5/8x4" capscrews.
The whole machine weighs approx 2300 lbs and is run with tractor hydraulics.
I hate to admit it but my computer skills are very limited and I do not plan on perfecting them ,a picture is probally out of the question ,sorry!!!!
Multiple wires coming out at the same time,hmmmm I would really like to watch the first time you you it, be a good giggle I bet,one wire is enough to drive you crazy,good thing there are flow controls on the tractor.Hey,a word of warning,the lead comes out of the extruder very hot, leather gloves are a must
at least with mine
best of luck
B
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  #9  
Old 03-13-2008, 06:06 PM
bohica2xo bohica2xo is offline
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Back in the early '80's there was a renewed interest in making leaded glass windows. The "H" shaped lead Came that is used to build those windows is extruded.

I made a couple of miles of that stuff when nobody had it available. I went through the "how hard can it be?" stages, even though I have experience building extrusion dies. After all it was soft lead, not 7075 aluminum... After getting it right I was amazed that they managed at all centuries ago.

The multiple hole die would be a huge PITA, if you could make it work at all. With a hydraulic jack, I suspect you will get several inches of .45 diameter, and a few thousandths of .17 diameter.

Secondary drawing can be necessary for precise size control, but since bulletmakers swage cores to size & weight you can skip this step. I found that I could change the size of the came by as much as 20% by simply stretching it as it came out of the die hot.

Many good tips in this thread already. If there was a market for it, I might build some dies. A big part of the price for lead wire is shipping, so making what you need from local stock makes some sense with the price of fuel today.

B.
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  #10  
Old 03-15-2008, 08:15 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
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Hmm, thanks for info I hadn't thought about.
Without experience at all with it. Might be good to pay attention to
what you have to say.

What about two or three hole's the same size then? Would all of it flow thru one, and starve the rest?

I'd only power it with a hand pumped hyd jack. Have a couple 20t and 15, 12 etc. Nothing in the way of power. But, never know when a man goes to scrounging around. Amazing things come out of the ground, out from under iron pile's and such.

Thanks much for the eddicational effects.
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