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Old 09-23-2017, 07:37 PM
shootstraight shootstraight is offline
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Default 17 ackley chamber too tight?

Hello all. This is my first post on Saubier, but I have learned a lot from you guys over the past several years. Thank you all for contributing to that.

I recently acquired a BEAUTIFUL custom Ruger No. 1 chambered in 17 ackley hornet. After getting the rifle, I picked up some RCBS ackley reloading dies and set about to create some 17 ackley cases. I polished the inside of the full length sizing die and lubed up the brand new nosler 22 hornet brass with a bit of imperial sizing wax. The cases went in and formed nicely without a hitch. Unfortunately, the newly formed case will not completely chamber in the Ruger No 1. I adjusted the dies all the way down thinking that perhaps the shoulder was hitting, but it didn't help. Finally I took one of the formed cases and cut the entire neck and shoulder area off, leaving only about a half inch of case from the rim up. That won't chamber either. It's as if the base of the brass is too thick for this chamber. How can the chamber be too tight for virgin 22 hornet brass?

Any ideas?
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Old 09-23-2017, 08:23 PM
jim barker jim barker is offline
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Take out the decap pin, raise the ram to the top then screw down die until its tight against the case holder, lower the ram and turn die in about 1/8 turn then size the brass again. If still to tight try another 1/8 turn. Good luck.
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Old 09-23-2017, 08:58 PM
shootstraight shootstraight is offline
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Thank you. I already have the decapping pin out and the dies screwed down to the shell holder. No matter how far down i put the die, there is always going to be a 1/16-1/8 of case that the die can't reach because of the case holder. What I can't understand is that 22 hornet brass should be thin enough without being resized in that area of the case to chamber.
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Old 09-23-2017, 09:05 PM
Bill K Bill K is online now
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Default 17 Ackley chamber too tight ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shootstraight View Post
Thank you. I already have the decapping pin out and the dies screwed down to the shell holder. No matter how far down i put the die, there is always going to be a 1/16-1/8 of case that the die can't reach because of the case holder. What I can't understand is that 22 hornet brass should be thin enough without being resized in that area of the case to chamber.
Get a extra shell holder, for your 17 case, and file some off of it, so a little more of the case goes into the die, with it down and touching the die.
You should be able to take a fair amount off the shell holder and that way size the case further down/near the base. Bill K
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Old 09-23-2017, 09:08 PM
moorepower moorepower is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shootstraight View Post
Thank you. I already have the decapping pin out and the dies screwed down to the shell holder. No matter how far down i put the die, there is always going to be a 1/16-1/8 of case that the die can't reach because of the case holder. What I can't understand is that 22 hornet brass should be thin enough without being resized in that area of the case to chamber.
The#1 does not give you much for camming action
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Old 09-23-2017, 09:48 PM
rick w. rick w. is offline
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First of all welcome to the forum.

I shoot the 17 KHornet rather than the Ackley version, but they have a lot of similarities. Just because I ran into a deal on the Khornet dies, otherwise I probably would have had the Ackley version like others here. Just the way it worked out.

First of all the 17 Ackley is a wildcat; like the Khornet version, ie not on the SAAMI list. So some varieties of said case dimensions are out there. There was some talk about reducing the size of the base because of some hornet brass that was around, there was a slight expansion of said case in early renditions.

Which wildcat was the RCBS made for? I cannot tell you but sounds like you are underway in the right direction. I have been to the point of cutting off brass too over the years because things did not match up trying to take parameters out of the mix.

There are headspacing(as they call them) shell holders around for bumping the shoulder. As suggested some will modify the top of the shellholder to allow the shellholder to force the case further into the sizing die. Another way is to place a shim between the bottom of your shellholder and the case head. There is always some vertical play in shellholders, the shim lifts the case base upwards. Please remove the decapper if you use this shimming technique or it will mangle the decapping pin.

A Ruger No.1 action has three degrees of camming during the last of the breechblock rise fwiw.

Thickness of brass is hard for me to come into play unless the sizing die is not compatible with the chamber, at least to me.

It is a small wonder to me how some wildcats can work out for the users if the die is made by one company and the chamber in the rifle by another, guess they do talk some huh?

You might take a nice dial caliper and measure the web areas just above and just below the sizing die mark(line). Might have to smoke the case to see things more better of where said line is on said case.

Sometimes folks cut the rim recess in the No.1 pretty tight, and then get the barrel shank right close to the face of the breecblock. With the action open, you should be able to see/feel the shell head rim fit flush across the face of the barrel shank if things are done ok.

Things will work out I am sure, just have to ponder a while probably..

Rick W.
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:27 PM
shootstraight shootstraight is offline
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Thank you for the replies. I saw a post one time where someone claimed that he could only get winchester hornet brass to fit his ackley chamber. Has anyone experienced this? I've read where shell plates and case holders have to be modified to get the die down far enough on the shoulder, but I've never seen anyone mention that for the very base of the case just above the rim.
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:31 PM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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What kind of brass are you using? I had my .17 Ackley made many years ago and was told by reamer owner that his reamer was made specifically for Winchester brass and anything else would be too thick. As I had/have an Anschutz 1730 .22 Hornet with a definite accuracy preference for WW cases and that was all I had, it is also all I've ever used. Cost about $10.00 a hundred then, glad I bought a fairly large amount.
Secondly, dies were a lot less expensive then and it was suggested to me I buy Redding's ".17 Ackley Hornet Form Die #1" and the Redding " .17 Ackley Hornet Form and Trim die". I bought both and I don't remember ever losing a case in forming and I've had several .17 Ackley Hornets. I've never tried just full length sizing a Hornet case with a .17 Ackley full size die but if it works, what the heck?
Also with anything like the .22 Hornet being sized down five calibers like the .17 Ackley I get the cases ready to fire-form and then anneal before loading and firing.
Good luck.
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Old 09-23-2017, 11:31 PM
shootstraight shootstraight is offline
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I'm using new Nosler brass. I have a forming die and full length die. I've tried both. I had no trouble at all forming the with the full length sizing die once I polished it. It's the very base of the case just above the rim that appears to be preventing the it from seating fully into the chamber. As another poster mentioned, since this is the number 1 action, I don't really have much camming action to force that last little bit of squeeze.
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Old 09-24-2017, 12:13 AM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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By the way, welcome to Saubier.com.
My reamer numbers state that the reamer that cut my .17 Ackley had a .195 neck, .293 base, Zero free-bore and a 1 1/2 degree taper. If that helps ya at all. That base number might. As I believe Jim posted though, there are a lotta different .17 Ackley reamers been made over the years and a lot are different than others.
Also, a couple 3 or 4 of us recently did .20 Ackley Hornets. As always I used WW cases for the most part but after forming a good number of em someone here posted that someone was selling Nosler Hornet brass. A number of us bought some, I've formed but not fired any yet. Beautiful brass but a couple a the guys had problems fire-forming it cause it is indeed harder and I'd suspect thicker then WW brass but I haven't measured both side by side to be able to prove that. I wouldn't be surprised however to find that as nice as that brass is it isn't a big part of your problem.
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