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  #1  
Old 01-09-2019, 11:32 PM
Wolfram Malukker Wolfram Malukker is offline
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Default First real wildcat, working out forming process?

I am working on my first built-it-here wildcat, and decided to do an easy version of the old .22 Jet. I don't need or want that long sloping shoulder, and I am fairly new (but not just starting) in reloading, so I decided to start with something I had stuff for on hand.

I had a set of .221 Fireball dies on hand, a lonely old 30-06 seater die with no mate and no seater stem, and a bucket of range brass-mostly pistol brass. Sorting through it, I picked out 47 Starline cases, tumbled, washed and deprimed them.

After trying to run two through the dies right out the gate, I remembered that it has to be done in steps, so I cut down that old 30-06 die to make a 30 cal necking die, and got 45 30-357 cases.



(the nickel R-P brass was because I forgot to take a photo of these...)

Next, stub of 6.8 SPC barrel (was a chambering practice stub), then pushed into a .250 Savage seater die. I didn't' cut up the .250 savage die, it's part of a new set I got in a trade.



Just for giggles, here's a .25-357 holding an old 87gr hollowpoint:



I'm going to anneal the brass necks and shoulder area next, then try and run these into the .221 die. I'll have to shorten the die some to get the case in full-length.

Looking at the case dimensions, the .221 is 1.40" long. This means I should need to cut off about 0.110" of the die, and then I could run the .357 based cases in just like I would any other case-set the die up to just bump the shell holder.

This should give a case with a 23* shoulder and a .200"-ish long neck, depending on how the brass moves during necking down, right?

The reason for using the .221 dies is that I want to use an old 1-12 twist .223 take-off barrel I've got here, and just trim the chamber down short, and cut in the rim recess for a falling block rifle action. Anyone see any issues with this?

I am planning for a case capacity around 18-21gr H20, and bullets in the 35 to 50gr range. I've got a handful of .224" 50gr FMJ-BT's I'd like to use, then work with lighter loads for plinking. I also have most of a can of IMR4198 to start with.

Anyone have any experiance they'd like to add to help me work this out?
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  #2  
Old 01-09-2019, 11:43 PM
csterner csterner is offline
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Can't help but I see you got on. Welcome! Keep us posted.
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  #3  
Old 01-10-2019, 12:05 AM
ray h ray h is offline
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Check out the 256 Win Mag
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  #4  
Old 01-10-2019, 12:22 AM
Johnly Johnly is offline
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I have a set of RCBS 256 winchester forming dies I'll loan you for the price of shipping.

John
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  #5  
Old 01-10-2019, 12:52 AM
squirrel_slayer squirrel_slayer is offline
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you may run into issues with just a cut .223 barrel. without reaming it to .221fb your base diameter will likely be too large to fit. the fb has less taper than the .223 rem.

you may want/need to add a little radius on the opening of the die and polish it as a 357 case (especially fired) is a few thou larger than a .221fb case. this will help lessen sizing effort and shaved brass. (this will depend on how much your die currently has)

also what action is this going in? getting a rimmed cartridge in some actions can leave alot of unsupported case that wasn't designed for such which will increase the probability of case head separation or rupture.

aside from that have at it and have fun!

Last edited by squirrel_slayer; 01-10-2019 at 12:56 AM.
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Old 01-10-2019, 01:49 AM
Wolfram Malukker Wolfram Malukker is offline
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The action is a falling block of my design, or another Chicopee CF.

The 221 FB dies were chosen for the body taper reason. I was thinking I'll just lap the die out a bit if needed, or put it on the lathe and ID grind a bit out.

If I have to, I can make a reamer...but not having a tool grinder makes it a painfully tedious process.

Johnly, I will think about your offer and let you know. Thanks!
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Old 01-10-2019, 02:18 AM
SEM SEM is offline
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if you get some 357 maximum cases or 360 Dan Wesson brass you will not have to shorten the 221 die,

Last edited by SEM; 01-10-2019 at 02:20 AM.
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  #8  
Old 01-10-2019, 02:33 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
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Welcome to the board.
Does sound like you've got experience in machining and
equipment to play with too. Lack of grinders plays hell with bright ideas!

Don't let me water down your project. But, this looked familiar so
I got out the collection of .17 cases others have donated to me over the
years on this board. Knew I had a .38 and .357 case necked down. Didn't know the names of them.

Have 'em in front of me now.

There's one .38: .17 Scamp, and .17 Shrew on .222 case a bit shorter body.
Both could be made from the .38 case easy enough.

The .357 case: .17 Max Jet, very similar to one made from a
.22 Rem Jet case necked to .17, this is called: .17 Jet.

I have no idea now who donated these as I didn't keep that part of the
notes. Ray H: you in on this yet? Who had these, you maybe? Harold, you might know too.

When tinkering like this I've found the three main tricks to not wrecking brass is: Anneal and AIR COOL, polish the insides of your dies til they can't be any slicker, and Imperial Sizing wax.

By the way, where are you located?

Best of luck with it and let's hear/see more as you progress.
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"Gun Control is NOT about guns,
it's about CONTROL!!"
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  #9  
Old 01-10-2019, 03:34 AM
Wolfram Malukker Wolfram Malukker is offline
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I use Imperial sizing wax, it's pretty good stuff. I had planned on doing a 17, because I already have a Chicopee CF with an unchambered 17 cal barrel fitted, but I didn't know how well I'd be able to neck the cases down. I have 19 rounds of .17 fireball here, (Remington factory stuff) I kinda lost interest in that cartridge for that rifle. I can always pull that barrel and use it in one of my bolt gun prototypes, where the extractor will handle it better than a rimmed round. Or trade it to another gun crank who wants a barrel to play with.

I don't have a tool and cutter grinder, so I'd have to make a D-bit reamer, which is doable but they are S-L-O-W cutting. They do cut a nice chamber if you're patient enough to make use of them.

The 360 DW brass is almost perfect for this conversion-it is the same overall length as the fireball brass so like SEM said, would not require modifiying the dies. If I also owned a .221FB I'd definitely go this route.

I'm located in western Kentucky, The Reason-The-ATF-Exists-State.
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  #10  
Old 01-10-2019, 03:36 AM
squirrel_slayer squirrel_slayer is offline
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those actions should work quite well as the case would be fully supported.

You could always buy a cheap .223 die and shorten it an equal amount and you would have a match dimensionally, however not sure if the cases will like being sized down that much.
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