Saubier.com  



Go Back   Saubier.com > Saubier.com Forums > Small Caliber Discussion Board

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-17-2020, 06:17 AM
Kiwishooter Kiwishooter is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,794
Default Cooper History - Who can fill me in

Since I wasn't aware of Coppers when they were first introduced, I never heard of them until the early 00's, when I developed a friendship with someone in the USA who was the seller of something I won on Ebay, he had a few Coopers including a 17 & 22 CCM.

From what I read on the archived Cooper website I see the Model 21 was the first Cooper action designed for the 223 Rem, and the Varmint Extreme stock design was introduced at the same time.

The history I read says that the first 25 are signified by a small brass inlay in the bolt handle with the stamp "VE" with a very few with "CC"

I can only assume the "VE" is for the Varmint Extreme and the "CC" is Custom Classic. Does anyone know if this is correct?

Has anyone got any more knowledge of these, ie how many have VE and how many CC and what calibers they were in?

Also has anyone got one of these and are they considered collectable?

I note the history article says M38 was produced as a centrefire repeater manufactured from 1991-1994 when the repeater was discontinued and the M38 was "re-introduced" as a singleshot in 1994.

Was the M38 discontinued as a repeater and introduced as a singleshot at the same time or was there a gap between the two?

I see Dan left the company in '95 and came back in '98 and it says that 250 Anschutz barreled actions were stock and shipped by Cooper, were the model 38, 21 and 22 available from Cooper during the '95-'98 period?


I can account for 1 of the first 25 model 21's which has "CC" stamped in the brass inlay and can also say the brass inlay is hiding the screw that attaches the bolt handle to the bolt body.

Kiwi
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-17-2020, 01:24 PM
Rimfire-CA Rimfire-CA is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 10
Default Cooper repeater

I am not an expert but I thought the only centerfire repeater Cooper made in that time period was the Model 40 chambered in 22 Hornet.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-17-2020, 01:30 PM
dungheap dungheap is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Newton, WI
Posts: 1,641
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rimfire-CA View Post
I am not an expert but I thought the only centerfire repeater Cooper made in that time period was the Model 40 chambered in 22 Hornet.
My M38 .17 CCM is a repeater, as was the .22 CCM I once had. Also had a M38 .22 Hornet that was a single shot, all somewhere in the 1990's.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-17-2020, 01:51 PM
TinMan TinMan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,800
Default

This might help some. Early Cooper SNs are very erratic. Then there was some consistency with Two letters followed by a numeric. I posted on 04/19/12 a bunch of SNs that I knew at the time:

Well, I have been searching through the posts and threads. We may never be able to decode some of it, what with special runs or specials or one-offs customs. A couple have some interesting info, some of it will help. I think the comments from xring's call to Cooper most of which is in valid, but some old posts might add some additional info. Posts from Kiwishooter on 3/12/11, from Alex on 6/25/09 and montdoug on 6/24/09 are helpful. Early SNs were erratic or not interpretable, mostly some numerics. The middle range from roughly 1998 to 2005 use a SN with 2 or 3 alphabetic characters followed by the the numeric order of manufacture. The most consistent format appears to be a V followed by a letter denoting the caliber then a numeric. In this time period, I believe any Cooper in any model could use this format, whether a M21, M22 or M38, and whether it was a Classic or Varminter or maybe even a Varmint Extreme. Like I said earlier, a VAnnn was a rifle chambered in 223, with numeric of nnn. I have a VA388, M21 Varminter in 223 in that format. A three alpha rather than two alpha SN denotes the caliber in left hand action, such as a left hand 221FB VELnnn. A rifle in 223 Ackley Improved looks to be a VAInnn or AInnn followed by the numeric.

So far, I have learned the calibers of:
VA = 223
VE = 221FB
VF = 17 Rem
VG = 17M4
VR = 22 Hornet

I think I am about burned out on all this and will let others pick up the thread if they want to add any new calibers. I am sure there are some oddball SNs and customs that don't fit that format, which is no longer used. Hope this helps in some way.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-17-2020, 01:58 PM
TinMan TinMan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,800
Default

Kiwi, an added P.S. I bought my first Cooper, a M21 in 221 FB in early December of 1998, so Cooper was in production at that time.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-17-2020, 04:18 PM
20VarTarg 20VarTarg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 289
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dungheap View Post
My M38 .17 CCM is a repeater, as was the .22 CCM I once had. Also had a M38 .22 Hornet that was a single shot, all somewhere in the 1990's.
I replied to your message the other day concerning the 17 CCM but haven't heard back from you.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-17-2020, 09:32 PM
GLWenzl GLWenzl is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,641
Default

I think rare, but there was a very few CCM Single shots.
__________________
Shoot First... Ask questions later... On Saubier.com
__________________
NRA Lifetime Endowment Member
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-17-2020, 10:07 PM
Kiwishooter Kiwishooter is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,794
Default

All good information, I know that some of the earlier rifles didn't have a "V" in the serial number and Dan Cooper told me that there were different numbering sequences for left hand and right hand on the early rifles
ie the left hand 221 Fireballs had serial number EL1, EL2, EL3 etc and the right hand ones were E1, E2, E3 etc so I imagine the other calibers were the same.

Dan also told me that when the left hand model 21 went into production the bolt handle attachment had changed so this eliminated the brass inlay, also that "The Outdoorsman" was the biggest dealer of Coopers in the early days and he was so convinced of the sale-ability of the left hand M21 that he ordered 100 of them, so "The Outdoorsman" sold the first 100 left hand M21's

I asked Dan to write down how the early serial numbering was done and which letter was assigned to each caliber but he never did. It would take a lot of folk to cooperate to form anywhere near a complete list now.

One other interesting fact Dan told me was the first M21's that had the brass inlay in the bolt handle, which is 25 according to the history (for some reason I always thought it was the first 50) had serial numbers starting at 100

Does anyone know when they changed from the "Cooper Arms" markings to "Cooper Firearms" ?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-17-2020, 10:07 PM
Kiwishooter Kiwishooter is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,794
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GLWenzl View Post
I think rare, but there was a very few CCM Single shots.
Were they originally singleshot rifles or converted from repeaters?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-17-2020, 11:26 PM
Gary in Illinois Gary in Illinois is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Taylorville, Illinois
Posts: 1,815
Default Cooper history

Don’t forget the model 16 for the PPC chamberings. And the few single shot pistols that crop up occasionally.
__________________
Good shooting!

Gary

NRA Endowment Life Member
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.