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Old 04-23-2010, 04:23 AM
ab_bentley ab_bentley is offline
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Default 223 to 20VT. PICTURES!

A few weeks ago I mentioned how to make 20VT out of 223 brass. For those who care here is the most simple way I have found.
Laundry list:
20VT Type S
17M4 Form Die #1
Timmer
--------------------
1) Take a FL 223 brass and run it through the 20VT type S die with guts removed.
2) Here you can trim or run the FL case through the 17M4 Form Die. I chose to run it through the form die.
3) Trim and neck turn if needed.
Now all of this is with un-annealed brass, so after they are finished you should anneal for a proper forming. It takes me about 40mins to make 25 fully formed 20VT's including neck turning, I have a .224 neck so I have to turn the necks to .2225".
-Side Note: You can also use these steps to make 17FB brass, after the last step just run through a FL 17FB die. The necks will need to be turned unless you have a huge neck in the chamber. Adam

Last edited by ab_bentley; 12-09-2011 at 04:00 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-23-2010, 02:06 PM
philip philip is offline
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Adam,

Couple questions.......

20VT type "S" die.......is that the bushing die or the full length die?????

If it`s the bushing die...what size bushing???

What is the purpose of the 17M4 #1 form die?????

Couldn`t you just use a 20VT full length die and accomplish this in one pass????

Trying to understand, please help, i`m really interested in doing this.....

Phil.
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  #3  
Old 04-23-2010, 02:51 PM
L461 L461 is offline
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Another way it could be done is,Buy yourself a Redding 221 fireball form and trim die then run the case into a 20 VT full length die
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Old 04-23-2010, 04:04 PM
ab_bentley ab_bentley is offline
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L461: Yes you're right and I also use that method. But the majority of the VT owners out there own the Type S (bushing dies) so i used it to show that with the decapping rod and bushings removed it serves the smae purpose.

Phillip: A bushing wan't present. It was a stripped Type S (bushing die) and it can formed with one pass. The use of the M4 Form Die is take the .230 ID of the neck to .195". It makes the neck very close to .204". You can accomplish it in one pass only if you use 221FB brass. The 223 has to be "drawn" in increments i.e. .375" to .230" to .194".

Last edited by ab_bentley; 04-23-2010 at 04:09 PM.
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  #5  
Old 04-23-2010, 04:39 PM
philip philip is offline
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Thanks Adam......
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  #6  
Old 04-23-2010, 05:31 PM
william t. oviatt william t. oviatt is offline
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Default Small Cal Poetry...

Adam,
That is pure "Poetry in Brass"!
Thanks for posting the "View" for all of us to enjoy...
Bill
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:00 PM
larryinIA larryinIA is offline
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Default very nice

Thanks for the post, Adam. Good stuff.

larry
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Old 04-24-2010, 01:50 PM
Dean2 Dean2 is offline
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Neat pictures, but looks like a LOT of work. Just out of curiosity, why not just neck up 17 FB?
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Old 04-24-2010, 06:05 PM
Centerfire Centerfire is offline
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Yes this was a very nice tutorial indeed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
Neat pictures, but looks like a LOT of work. Just out of curiosity, why not just neck up 17 FB?

HOWEVER, if somebody out there has been resizing the 17 Fireball brass up to 20, would you please tell me the brand name tool that you are using, and how much trouble it is. (or how little trouble it is) For example, is it just a matter of buying a K&M expander?

Then again, it probably would be easier to size down the 221 Fireball.
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Old 04-24-2010, 08:07 PM
ab_bentley ab_bentley is offline
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The reason for the 3 steps and making brass: PRICE and QUALITY! I can buy 1000 LC 223 for the price of 300 17FB. Also when I make the brass I am in charge. I can tailor the brass perfectly, I make the brass .005" less than max and the necks I can fit even to a factory chamber. All in all it makes for a better brass and lets you have a higher pressure count. The 221FB is some of the weakest brass available, the LC 223 is some of the strongest. I do it to make better brass. Adam
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