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  #1  
Old 06-28-2019, 07:27 PM
squirrel_slayer squirrel_slayer is offline
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Default The ol slow and heavy vs fast and light debate with a twist

Hello Guys, Wanted to bounce an idea off you guys to help me make a decision. Trying to decide on a load for a fall whitetail hunt.

My initial thoughts were something like an 85gr sgk or 95gr nbt (this is a 6mm wildcat) however I've been crunching the #'s and on the other side of the coin I'm leaning towards a 105gr berger VLD Hunting or 103 eld-x.

This is a small capacity case so I'm not working with .243 velocities (similar to a 6x45 but slightly shorter and less case taper)

Anyways Even if I launched those heavy for caliber pill at a few 100 ft/sec faster the slow and steady catches up quickly and before 300yds even the 103/5 is ahead in energy and carries it out to nearly 500 yds before meeting the velocity threshold of expansion (1800ft/sec)

Another pro is the wind bucking capability, yes the drop is notably more but with laser range finders and turrets/bdc reticles is that even really a valid concern?

I don't intend on making a 300+ yd shot, but if a prime target presented itself I'd like to have the ability to make the shot vs not.

So what's your guys thoughts?

Any experience with said bullets in the same velocity realm? or others that are worth looking into?

Thanks, George
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  #2  
Old 06-28-2019, 07:56 PM
TinMan TinMan is offline
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You have to watch the twist rate and bullet length for your wildcat. I know my 243 likes the 85gr SGK in the 1:10. The 107gr SMK needs a 1:8 twist in the 6BR. What case and twist do you have?
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  #3  
Old 06-28-2019, 08:15 PM
JSH JSH is offline
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If it is similar to 6x45/6TCU, you are not going to get enough speed for expansion with the heavies.

I can put you in contact with a fellow in Shiner Texas that has more knowledge than anyone I know of with this type speed and cartridge. He has shot a lot of hogs and deer and done some pretty extensive work with different bullets. If your bound and determined to run a heavy I will guess he points you towards a
Nosler ballistic tip.
PM if you want to email him.
I used a 6TCU carbine about 25 years or so ago. I still used the Sierra single shot pistol bullet and kept my shots at 200 and under. It worked but lacked some horse power in my opinion.
Jeff
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  #4  
Old 06-28-2019, 08:25 PM
squirrel_slayer squirrel_slayer is offline
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Barrel is a 1:8 twist, case is in essence a 6tcu -.100" but throated for the heavies so for all intense purposes it has the same useable case capacity compared to a "standard" 6tcu

JSH i'll shoot you a PM thanks.
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  #5  
Old 06-28-2019, 10:13 PM
JSH JSH is offline
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info sent.
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  #6  
Old 07-03-2019, 03:46 AM
rickiesrevenge rickiesrevenge is offline
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Id try the 85gr Lehigh Controlled Chaos.

Aaron
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  #7  
Old 07-03-2019, 12:56 PM
squirrel_slayer squirrel_slayer is offline
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I got in touch with JSH's buddy and I'm leaning more towards the 87gr Vmax now. It sports a respectable BC for it's weight and at the velocity window i'll be using it should work well.

I see hornady also has a 90 ELD-x now as well so I may pick up a box of each and play with them in some wet pack or something at simulated velocities (ie. reduced loads to ~1800 ft/sec) as I'm more concerned about the big end performance.

I found an interesting article about the 87 vmax on speed goats. one guy uses that bullet exclusively and has taken many shots from 400-700yds (.243 win velocities) with his furthest at 765yds and he said it mushroomed nicely and was found on the offside hide (impact velocity was sub 1700ft/sec) He brought up a good point though about expending all of the energy in the animal vs it punching through and putting the energy in the dirt(which is also what JSH's buddy was hinting towards). He claimed that he never had an animal go more than 40-50 yds after the shot and all 1 shot kills.

Last edited by squirrel_slayer; 07-03-2019 at 12:59 PM.
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  #8  
Old 07-03-2019, 05:10 PM
JSH JSH is offline
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He has done a lot of work in years past with 6mm,6.5 and 7mm at some what reduced velocities coming from single shot pistols.

Even with his health problems he still gets some shooting in along with input of his loads.
Jeff
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  #9  
Old 07-05-2019, 09:23 PM
17tbs 17tbs is offline
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Default single shot pistol bullets

http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/b.../wounding.html
http://www.rkba.org/research/fackler/wrong.html

Directly from Sierra bullets website: "In rifles chambered for either the 6mm Remington or 243 Winchester cartridge, this 80 grain #1515 Blitz bullet is dependably frangible and has no peer as a varmint bullet at velocities delivered by these cartridges. The Sierra Spitzer boat tail shape assures a flat trajectory, good resistance to crosswinds and vertical winds, and high-energy delivery even at extreme ranges. Built at the request of numerous varmint shooters, this bullet will bring out the best in both a shooter and his rifle for all varmint hunting applications.

In handguns, the soft core and thin jacket of this 80 grain #1515 Blitz bullet will deliver positive expansion at handgun velocities together with the accuracy and ballistic efficiency of the famous Sierra boat tail shape.

The #1515 was introduced in 1994."

If you are going faster than 2700fos, then the 87gr you mentioned above probably would be perfect for broadside, though I would not use it for a raking shot.

If you have lower velocities around 2500fps, then this is the bullet I would use if your muzzle velocities are what I would expect, somewhere below 2500fps., or if you are trying to stretch your distance.

If you are intending to consume the meat, then I would reconsider using a lead bullet if you do not want health issues.
https://undark.org/article/lead-ammu...unting-copper/



Below, venison packed for human consumption killed with a lead bullet.




Bottom line for me is that I would not hunt for meat using a lead bullet since I know it is stupid to go around licking lead paint or eating gut piles left by deer or elk hunters, so I just take head shots if using a lead bullet and bury the head and quite a bit of the neck.

Hey, what do I know, I just have a trauma medicine background and you still have the liberty to go on eating lead if you want.

Personally I would only recommend a Barnes X and one other manufacturer, if you are going to eat the meat.
They always worked for me, and they do expand. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/59...free-box-of-50

Here is the second option if hunting for meat is your goal, or even if it is not, I would also not pass up this option:
http://www.gscustomusa.com/243075HV046.html

If you have questions, they have answers, just like Barnes& Sierra etc.
http://www.gsgroup.co.za/contact.html

Last edited by 17tbs; 07-06-2019 at 06:45 PM.
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  #10  
Old 07-08-2019, 11:40 PM
squirrel_slayer squirrel_slayer is offline
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Decided to try hyroforming and came up with this.

It's not 100% mind you but gives you an idea of how the cartridge will be. Thats a 105gr nosler RDF in there

Next to a .223 rem for comparison
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