The 17 CCM

[GLWenzl]

As most of you know the 17 CCM is probably my favorite 17 caliber and definitely is out in a spring PD town!!

I really wish there was more info on the 17 CCM. Matter of fact the only article I am aware of is in Small Caliber News Vol 5 #1 by Bill Cook who did a great job on the CCM and different cases but did not talk about head stamping to tell the difference between the different makes of brass. Nor did it go into any detail what inspired Dan Cooper to make such a fine cartridge in one of his riffle…

Not to mention any names but one of you Saubier.com guys has not only one of the nicest looking Cooper 17 CCMs that I have ever seen but probably the most interesting pieces of Cooper history (at least for me)… I was so fortunate to be able to see that bad boy!!!

If anyone here has any info on the 17 CCM (or 22 CCM) especially you guys who was keeping up with things when Cooper was making em I would appreciate the info (good or bad) so I can save it to my CCM file… I will appreciate hearing about anything good or bad and even if you told me once before...

When Hornady comes out with the 17 gr V-Max bullets for sale that will be really good for the smaller 17s say 17 AH and down for out to 200 yard shots on PDs with awesome accuracy and fun watching the explosive bullet do its thing!!!

[trcuda]

There are at least 3 more 17 CCM articles that I can think of. Kindler had one in Precision Shooting march 1993 issue as well as a write up on it in his Sensational 17's. Also there is an article in VHA Magazine number 7.

There are 5 types of brass that I am aware of. The original was lathe turned from bar stock. It is very concentric but VERY prone to splits. Good (and possibly repeated) annealing is the key to using this brass.

The next brass is drawn Fiocchi brass known as "one shot" brass. This is good brass but apparently Fiocchi missed the fact that it is very soft in the head area, possibly over annealed or not work hardened enough in manufacture. This is good brass and what I use primarily in my 17 CCM. If loads are kept down around 2800 fps brass seems to last for at least 3 firings. Anything hotter and primer pockets loosen up. They can be salvaged by reswedging the head which tightens up the pocket and work hardens the brass to where it seems to be lasting a lot longer.

Third brass was the properly hardened Fiocchi. I have very little experience with this brass as it is scarce as hens teeth.

Fourth is brass reformed from 5.75 Velo Dog. I have one piece in my collection so no real experienc with it either. 5.75 VD ammo is available still from Fiocchi thru Grafs but costs $40 a box of 50. Fiocchi is not willing to sell just the component brass, I have tried .

Lastly, Schroeder reforms Hornet brass by swedging the base and turning the rim and head. I have used a little of his brass, the first stuff being slightly oversized. I have heard that he has addressed this issue and his current brass is fine. I have a limited experience with his brass but other than appearances it seems to be fine. He claims 10+ firings without having to reanneal. His price is $30 per 50.

I have heard that there are multiple dimensions for the chambers and dies. Makes sense as the drawn brass is smaller than the turned stuff by a couple of thous. I have 2 sets of RCBS dies that definately size brass differently. I am sure there are probably more variations of brass that I am not aware of. Like Gary I would love to hear of any others.

Tim

[Scott Elliott]

Hey Gary,
The CCMs are alive and well Cooper is still producing them. When I wanted all the info I could get on the 20 Vartarg I contacted Todd Kindler and I'm glad I did. My Cooper should be here in Feb
I've spoken with Dan Cooper on occaision (spelling) and he struck me as being a stand up guy and willing to discuss what he does. Maybe email, call or write him. He is an interesting fellow and fun conversation
Best,
Scott

[GLWenzl]

Here is a link from 5 years ago on this site that might bring back some good ole 17 CCM feelings... http://www.saubier.com/board/smallca...chive/516.html

[Scott Elliott]

Originally Posted by GLWenzl

Here is a link from 5 years ago on this site that might bring back some good ole 17 CCM feelings... http://www.saubier.com/board/smallca...chive/516.html

I wasn't even a gun owner yet Thanks for the link.
Scott

[georgeld]

GW:
Good reading this, thanks for posting the oldie.

Just about had a stroke! Knew you sent me one for the collection
and couldn't find about half the cards with these carts. Hasn't been
anyone in here that would take them that I know of. Have kept them
all in a bag in a dish on the dining table. Being a bachelor I can get by
with such things!

Just about turned the room over looking for them.
Closed the cover on Cartridge Conversions and there they were under
the book cover from when I was studying them a few days ago!

Better go to bed and sleep it off.

Nice looking cartridge too.

[GLWenzl]

whoever called me last week about the CCM I forgot if I was suppose to look up something for you. here is/are some old threads that may help. I should be around for the next couple days if there is something else not listed here

[Hal]

Does anyone have the measurements on the CCm cases.
I picked up a cartridge case at the gun show this weekend that I thought might be close.

Thanks
Hal

[dungheap]

The last Accurate Arms loading manual I have has a good drawing of the cartridge. If you don't have any other replies, send me a PM and I'll photocopy it and scan the page to you.

[Hal]

Thanks dungheap.
I'll check around and see if I can find a Accurate Arms manual.
If I can't I'll get back iin touch with you.

Hal