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View Poll Results: Should we consider copper solids for maximum effect on large varmints
Do I need a longer barrel? 2 33.33%
Should I use more case capacity? 1 16.67%
Should I go up in bullet weight? 3 50.00%
Should I be using lighter bullets, or sabots ? 3 50.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 02-10-2011, 07:30 PM
steelshooting steelshooting is offline
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Default .17 Hyper velocity 4,000 fps + = Hydraulic jelly

These urls will take you to articles about P.O.Ackley, solid copper projectiles, effects on armor plate and shoulder bones.

http://discussions.texasbowhunter.co...?t-111049.html
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartr...des/17caliber/
http://discussions.texasbowhunter.co...?t-111049.html
Cajun Blake10-22-2009, 09:26 PM
Here are 2 great reads that I copy/paste to detail PO Ackley's findings.

If you are a reloader and don't have his 2 Vol set of books , I suggest you get it b

article 1 :
P.O. Ackley, the godfather of American ballisticians, forgot more than most of us will ever know about bullet performance. Many years ago, I read his double volume “Handbook for Shooters & Reloaders.” When I turned to his chapter entitled “Killing Power” in Volume I, I fully expected a treatise on why .50-caliber bullets are more deadly than .49-caliber bullets. However, I was amazed to fine something different – something that Ackley called “shockdown power” rather than “knockdown power.”

His premise is simply that the more speed increases, the more shock increases. And when speed passes the threshold of 4,000 feet per second, a whole new dynamic is created – one that cannot be equaled with lesser speed, no matter how large the bullet.

His classic test, which proved his point, was conducted by shooting bullets into ½-inch-thick steel-armor plate from the frontal area of a U.S. military half-track. At a distance of 30 feet, he shot a .270 Win with 100-grain bullets, a .30-06 with military-issue, solid-steel, armor-piercing bullets, and a .220 Swift with a 48-grain bullet.

The results were astounding. The .270 bullet left a shiny spot on the armor plate and did not penetrate at all. Two shots from the .30-06 armor-piercing bullets left shallow craters .070 and .098 inch respectively. The little .220 Swift bullets consistently burned 3/8-inch diameter holes completely through the ½-inch armor. The results spoke for themselves. Crossing the threshold of hypervelocity created a dynamic as a result of shock that cannot be achieved any other way.

Ackley’s test was done on armor plate, but how does that translate to performance on the flesh and bone of wild animals? Ackley went on to say that if he had to pick only one rifle for hunting North American game, it would be a .220 Swift. If, in Ackley’s day, he had had access to the slower-burning powders of today, he would have been able to propel even larger-diameter bullets at “hyperspeed” – bullets traveling 4,000 or more feet per second at the muzzle. I speculate that he would have chosen a larger-caliber, heavier bullet capable of hyperspeed for his choice North American game rifle.

rest of article (great read) : http://www.barnesbullets.com/informa...ttlin-bullets/
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  #12  
Old 03-15-2013, 12:22 AM
17tbs 17tbs is offline
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Ok ladies and gentlemen, I used a chrony (actually a $100.00 chrony called a chrony) and had an eye opening experience with the 17 and 19 grain .172" gsc solids. I accomplished with 18.5gr. of H4198 a small first. 4767fps. from a 17rem fb 26" barrel. this was the 17gr bullet, the 19 managed 4658 fps. with 18.4gr H4198. Pressure signs were there, but so was some rather nice accuracy, so I'm not here to complain about the lack of match grade accuracy, and still pretty nice ballistics.

Last edited by 17tbs; 03-16-2013 at 03:42 AM. Reason: new data and happiness
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  #13  
Old 03-15-2013, 03:06 AM
Oleman Oleman is offline
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Default Copper bullets

Use jacketed lead HP's and get performance. Copper way over penatrates on varmints.
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  #14  
Old 03-15-2013, 07:44 AM
17tbs 17tbs is offline
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sorry, my varmints are in the tough category, and so warrant the use of a tough bullet, wild pig and javalina are pretty tough.
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  #15  
Old 03-20-2013, 12:20 PM
Dean2 Dean2 is offline
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f you are shooting varmints with solids make real sure of your backstops. No different than FMJs or real tough Barnes TSX and the like, they are fond of bouncing when they hit hard pan or rock.

While I am sure that you can kill wild pig with a 17 I have to ask why, when there are so many better suited calibers where you don't have to mess around with solids. Barnes makes a great selection of TSX, from 45 to 70 grains, in 22 caliber so if you want to stay small and light 223, 22-250, 220 swift are all viable options.
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  #16  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:11 AM
bado1 bado1 is offline
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You may want to email Gina or Anthony at GS Custom bullets with your questions. Anthony is a wealth of knowledge. They turn solids in 17 caliber at this time as mentioned earlier in this thread. Gina told me a couple of months ago that they were in the process of developing a hollow point all copper 17 cal bullet. They call their hollow point bullets "HV". The goal of this bullet would be to create a all copper hollow point that would have the devastating lethal effects of their other HV offerings and be very fur friendly as well. She did state that these bullets would penetrate fully...caliber sized entry and exit. They are drive band bullets so they can be pushed to very high velocities due to their low friction. gina@gscustomusa.com.

As for .17 caliber bullets and Javelina... my daughter shot a nice one last month with one of Mr. Nagel's fine 25 grain T-000 bullets out of my 17FB...bang/flop/dead!
Dean
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  #17  
Old 04-01-2013, 07:40 AM
17tbs 17tbs is offline
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Talking

It certainly is nice to see the 17 fireball, mkiv kicking Havalina butt.
http://db.tt/jbO46nOp

http://db.tt/Dx6QHWcB

It may or may not be necessary to have an HV version of the 17 GSC bullet, it surely would create more even expansion over a broader and lower velocity range, but it has been so long since I had any communication from GSC. I had honestly given up on them after they refused to make a custom run of banded 24 grain solids. If they do produce the 17 in HV it hopefully will be a heavier offering but just shy of 0.603" oal so it will be stable in a 1 in 9" twist.

Last edited by 17tbs; 04-01-2013 at 07:47 AM.
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  #18  
Old 04-01-2013, 02:30 PM
bado1 bado1 is offline
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17tbs,
You are, obviously, very familiar with GSC. I know that they have been busy setting up their USA operation so communication with them was sketchy but seems to have improved over the last couple of months. Gina has been very prompt with answering questions. Try emailing your specs and see if they can do it. Anthony would be the guy to talk to. He has told me that they wont do custom runs of something that they feel wont work in a particular twist/caliber/etc.

Have you tried Nagel Bullets? I know that they are off the topic of your original post but I have to say that they have proven themselves to me time and again. I really put the hurtin on the coyotes this season with them.

Dean

Last edited by bado1; 04-01-2013 at 02:37 PM.
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  #19  
Old 04-01-2013, 05:00 PM
17tbs 17tbs is offline
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Default 17 and 19 gr .172 GSC

So, is 4767fps too much? I just wish to pop a hog with it to see what it will do, plus I have some friends who like to hunt. I just think they're going to scoff and jeer at that tiny bullet till it proves it's tough enough to take impact into a hog.
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  #20  
Old 04-01-2013, 07:04 PM
bado1 bado1 is offline
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I believe Adam has had some experience shooting hogs with the .17 GSC solids with good success (on large hogs). Perhaps he can chime in again. I don't want to state the obvious but as to the speed being too fast...if the load is accurate the faster the better IMHO. Those solids will certainly hold up. I'd give them a try. I'm sure that you would get full penetration on broadside shots even with a good sized hog.

I know that they are pushing those speeds with the .22 Easling (.22-06) and some of their results are posted on the GS website.

Go give it a try and post some pics!

Dean
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17 & 19 grn copper, cnc copper solid, hypervelocity

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