Are "S" bushing type dies really necessary?

[Centerfire]

I'm a tight wad.....or atleast I admit to being a tight wad if I feel I'm spending good money on something that a much less expensive subsitutite will do the chore just as fine. Man, I hate to spend $170 on a set of "S" bushing type 20 Tactical Redding Dies plus the one or two $11 bushings necessary, when I can buy a standard set of Redding dies for about $60!!

I'm a fussy reloader, But, for many years and up to now I have never felt the need to own dies with bushings, or micrometer adjustment style heads.

Tell me that a bunch of you guys out there are getting your sub 1/2" groups without the need of such fancy dies.

[sicero]

So far I load my Ackley hornet and another small 17 wildcat with a double end form die and a shortened 17 Remington seater. I don't have any micrometer seaters or bushing dies and don't feel disadvantaged. Cheap ar$*s Kenny

[Chuck Miller]

for my Tac20's but I do not have a tight neck chamber either. Unlike you I was one of the guys that paid 120.00 for a set of Redding std dies through Todd when the Tac20 first hit the scene. My rifles still shoot inside 1/2" without the bushing die setup. If I buy anything else for it, it will probably be a Wilson bushing nk die, but then I already have the arbor press for it.

[montdoug]

All I use for the most part is bushing dies. After initial firing I use bushing neck dies until full sizing is needed, on some of the smaller stuff it doesn't seem it's gonna be needed.
Most of my bushing neck dies are Wilson (cheaper that Redding, straighter too). As most of my rifles are tight necked or at least minimum necked I like bushing dies cause you can size the necks exactly and not over work the brass. What I really dislike about standard dies is the dang'd expander plug stretching the necks and throwing them out of concentricity. Bushing dies are easier on the brass and ya have to trim a lot less. On top of that if using Wilson or even S-Bushing neck dies and competition seaters I "typically" end up with less bullet run-out.
Do ya "have" to have em? Absolutely not (unless you have a tight necked chamber), do I prefer em? Most definitely.

[ray hauver]

Talk to Lonnie at Hornaday, he'll make you a custom die. They are very well made.

[Mntngoat]

I'm probably more anal than most, but and try not to complain over the cost of components or equipment. I do use bushing dies when I can, buts it's hard to argue over a few bucks when we pay $1500.00 for a rifle.
Whats a little more? It's just the cost of doing business.

Does it make a difference? With my shooting I'll never know, but I feel better about doing so.


Michael

[Cajun Blake]

CF,

neck bushing dies are most often used by BR shooters or people who have a tight neck chamber. The philosophy is the increase/decrease neck tension when seating a bullet. Some rifles shoot better with more/less tension of a seated bullet. Factory dies will work for your rifle, although you may be able to squeeze more accuracy out of your rifle by expiramenting with neck bushings and bullet tension.

If you go with the standard dies, Jim Cartensen (JLC Precision) can modify your FL sizing die to accept bushings for roughly $35. Definitely the way to go.

cb <*)))>{

[Centerfire]

Originally Posted by ray hauver

Talk to Lonnie at Hornaday, he'll make you a custom die. They are very well made.

Huh? ....What's that all about? It doesn't answer anything I asked.



Gentlemen thanks for the input. The 20 Tac reamer that Dave at Pacific has made is supposed to be a match grade reamer with a snug neck, but not tight enough to require neck turning. He tells me it will fit the Lapua case. I asked him if I should buy a neck sizer die, but he instead suggested that I buy a regular set of dies, and use the full length sizer die to just bump the neck!

I thought it was rather odd for him to not only sway me away from the better bushing dies, but to also suggest that I attempt to make do with one standard full length sizer to do it all! Does that suggestion by Dave have legitimate merits? Seems to me a seperate neck sizer die would be better then my using a full length sizer die to bump and size the neck.....no?

Montdoug,
Now if I have to worry about the expander ball throwing cocentricity out of wack, that would bother me! I do have a Sinclair cocentricity gage, but that doesn't fix anything or prevent the problem to begin with. It just tells me
which cartridges to toss! Hopefully a standard set of Redding dies wouldn't produce that many rejects that are incocentric.

My rifle will be a custom smithed Remington 700. Am I right to assume that the most accurate shooting will be done with once fired cartridges that are reloaded and then only neck sized....right? I didn't realize that every so often they need to be fully sized in order to fit the chamber. Am I right about that too?

[SteveLC]

Some rifles will require a shoulder bump from time to time, and some nearly every firing. Many people set their die up to bump the shoulder a half thousandth each time they size. I personally use a full length bushing die, but only bump the shoulder when it starts to chamber hard. I prefer the bushing dies and take the expander button off using a Redding die. It does seem like a lot of money to spend up front for dies but gives you flexibilty as well to tweak a load using neck tension. I also find many unique uses for the bushing dies like forming brass using a series of bushings, I use a smaller bushing to size my 22BR using the 6BR die I already had,etc... You can save some cash by buying "regular" dies and having them converted to bushing dies. Good luck with your project. Sounds like fun.

[rstreich]

I have to disagree a bit here. It doesn't matter whether you have a tight-necked chamber or not. The real problem is in how much you work the brass.

I cheaped out when I got the crazy idea that I need an XR-100 in 204 and bought a set of Forster dies. Just out of curiosity I took out the expander ball and ran a piece of brass through it. It sized the neck down something like 0.007" more than was needed. Couple this with a roomy Remington chamber and you could be moving your necks around 0.012" or more for every shot. With a bushing die, you can select just how much neck tension you want and move the brass only what is needed.

Another advantage of the bushing die is that you can play around with the neck tension as another step in working up a load. So, it gives you something else you can tweak to get that last little bit of accuracy out of your rifle. Even when you have a load, you might need to size your necks down that extra little bit when they start to get work hardened (if you don't want to venture into the annealing process).

But, if you really don't want a bushing die, then just buy a Forster sizing die determine how much neck tension you want (usually between 0.002" and 0.004" smaller than the diameter of the neck with a bullet seated) and send it in to Forster. For $10 (at least that's how much it was), they'll hone the die out to that diameter for you. You lose the ability to play with the neck tension, but you get a nice sizer that won't overwork the neck on your brass.