Alex, slicking up a trigger pull.

[Larry in VA]

Alex, could you give me that procedure you had for slicking up a trigger pull by applying moly to the trigger mechanism. I had saved it as text file on my PC, but can’t find it now.

Just brought home the new 700LVSF in 221FB ($599.95 at Gander Mountain)and the trigger is the usual 8+ lb pull. Want to try your method before I start messing with the adjustments.

Put the ole “Hawkeye” bore scope in it as soon as I got home and with the exception of a very little bit of a burr in one grove at the crown, this is a pretty good bore for a Remington, nice and bright and smooth. Even the lands at the throat are even all the way around. The best I have seen on recent Remington’s. Now if it will only shoot without to much trouble.

[Alex]

Larry, you can't bring the LVSF trigger down that far with just the moly dust. I sent you the Cooper pic via e-mail to give you some visual reference.

However, here is the "moly" trick.


First, on a Remington, start by spraying the trigger assembly with a cleaner. Lighter fluid will work just fine, but do be careful to do it outside, away from flames, etc., including cigarettes.

Using a technical grade moly powder, take a toothpick and having located the "sear inspection hole", place a dab of moly on the junction where the sear engages. If you open the bolt, the sear junction will be open, and you can put the moly right there. Close the bolt, pull the trigger, etc., several times and do it again. After about three passes, you will be about to the point of demishing returns.

More than likely this will have lowered the trigger weight considerably, but not to the 2 lbs or less target you are probably looking for.

It is not difficult to adjust a stock Remington trigger. Simply find the weight adjustment screw and back it out. You will have to either loosen the locknut or whatever hicky they use to tighten it, and back it out. I don't have one open or here in front of me or I'd tell you which one it is. I think that over on GGVG there are instructions posted in the Tech section.

As you lighten the trigger pull, you may start to feel some creep and overtravel. The overtravel isn't critical to adjust, but you need to be careful adjusting the creep, as that is associated with the sear engagement. If you monkey with it, do a lot of "bolt slam" testing, and bounce the butt on the floor testing. You also need to do some "smack it beside the trigger" testing to make sure that a blow in any direction perpendicular to the barrel won't set the trigger off.

On my LVSF, I cheated and bought a Rifle Basix trigger. Unfortunately, I find the RB triggers a touch "spongy." The going rate to have a 'smith kiss a trigger is about 45 bux. I've had John Lewis of Carolina Precision Rifles do several. On one Cooper that he did that I also did the moly trick on, the pull dropped to 8 oz. I used half a bottle of Birchwood-Casey scrubber to bring it back up to a pound.

Mike Whitmore (AKA VA Boy) brought his LVSF trigger down to 2.5 lbs and called it good. Since, he found a Jewell trigger for it at a steal and put it on.

One of the things you may want to do is get rid of the pressure point in the fore-end. Don't do it if the rifle shoots good without messing with the bedding. The problem with doing this is that much of the ridgidity of the stock comes from pressing on the barrel. It also means the you have to be careful where you place the rifle on the bags.

When I got rid of the pressure points, the stock simply sprang up to touch the barrel some more. I did a complete inletting job, reinforced the stock with two 3/16" square rods, and set the whole thing in Brownell's Steel Bed. It added about half to one pound to the weight of the rifle. I didn't do a very pretty job and was disappointed with myself and didn't shoot the rifle for about 6 months. Finally took it out and shot it some. With several 3 shot groups pushing 1/4" inch, I mounted a better scope on it and started to like it real good. I was going to put it in the truck with me on Friday (2 Feb) but hadnt' checked the zero, so I left it at home.

Lots more than you asked for. Sorry.

Alex

[Alex]

Looked at the GGVG Tech section. Fuzz has a note on changing the trigger pull and overtravel (he calls it "backlash"). It gives the location of the adjustment screws.

http://www.varminthunters.com/tech/crisp.html

While Fuzz recommends not touching the sear adjustment, and I hope you don't need to do this, it isn't rocket science. I don't recommend fiddling with it unless you have some experience or mechanical aptitude.

I've had two XR-100's. The first couldn't have had a better trigger, the second had a yard of creep. Took about 5 minutes to get it right.

Alex

[Larry in VA]

Just checked my email and I never got your email with the Cooper trigger pic, but that’s OK I already have it and don't need you to resend. I'll try to not lose the info this time.
I know the molly treatment won’t help the 8+ lb pull weight; I want to experiment with your moly treatment on this heavy trigger to see if I can perceive any improvement and check it with my trigger scales. Just messin around till the weather turns nice.
Thanks a bunch.
Larry

[Alex]

Send me an e-mail at clarke at vabb dot com. The e-mail didn't come back, so I'm wondering where in the ether it went.

Did you ever get PCB set up and working?

Alex

[Larry in VA]

Email sent Alex.

[Alex]

... How's this. Only problem is that the formatting is lost.
Alex

17MachIV Load Data
Cooper M21 - s/n MTV433 Neck Diameter: 0.199" 25 gr. Berger square lande mark = 2.606 Comp OAL
Trim Length: 1.430" Neck Wall thickness: 0.0135" 25 gr. Berger MEF square lande mark = 2.597 Comp OAL
FL Size Headspace: 1.089" 22 gr. Berger MEF square lande mark = 2.601 Comp OAL
20 gr. Berger MEF square lande mark = 2.610 Comp OAL
20 gr. Hornady V-max square lande mark = x.xxx Comp OAL
H4227 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
REM 14.9 20 V-max BR4 .221 4,000
Stevespages.com 12.4 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 13.4 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221

Stevespages.com 11.8 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 14.6 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Benchrest.com/sst/mach 15.6 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,700


H4198 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Stevespages.com 14.3 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221
REM 16.0 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221
Reloadersnest.com - T. Steger 16.0 20 V-max BR4 .221 Load ID 8851
Stevespages.com 16.7 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221

Todd Kindler 15.5 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,633
Todd Kindler 16.1 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,735 Accurate
Stevespages.com 13.6 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 16.0 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Todd Kindler 16.4 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,819 Very accurate - approach carefully
Todd Kindler 16.7 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,855 Very accurate - approach carefully
Todd Kindler 17.0 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,923 Very Accurate - MAXIMUM

Accuratereloading.com 13.0 30 Berger WSR .221 2,894 Fire Forming Load
Accuratereloading.com 13.5 30 Berger WSR .221 2,968
Accuratereloading.com 13.8 30 Berger WSR .221 3,001
Accuratereloading.com 14.1 30 Berger WSR .221 3,053
Accuratereloading.com 14.4 30 Berger WSR .221 3,178
Accuratereloading.com 14.7 30 Berger WSR .221 3,227
Accuratereloading.com 15.0 30 Berger WSR .221 3,293
Accuratereloading.com 15.0 30 Berger WSR .221 3,322
Accuratereloading.com 3.0 30 Berger WSR .221 3,387
Accuratereloading.com 15.6 30 Berger WSR .221 3,453 Accurate
Accuratereloading.com 15.9 30 Berger WSR .221 3,546


Reloader 7 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Stevespages.com 14.2 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 16.3 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221

Stevespages.com 12.8 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 15.7 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221


Reloader 10X POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Dan C 17.4 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 3,945
Dan C 18.3 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,140





Ramshot X-Term POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Dan C 19.6 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,080
Dan C 19.8 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,110





H322 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
??? 17.5 20 V-max Fed 205M .221
Chucker 19.5 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221 4,350 MAX LOAD

Todd Kindler 17.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,667
Todd Kindler 17.8 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,726
Todd Kindler 18.0 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,776
Todd Kindler 18.3 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,825 Very accurate
Todd Kindler 18.6 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,870 Very accurate


N130 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Stevespages.com 14.8 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 16.9 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221

Stevespages.com 13.6 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Stevespages.com 16.4 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221

Accuratereloading.com 14.0 30 Berger WSR .221 2,953
Accuratereloading.com 14.3 30 Berger WSR .221 3,008
Accuratereloading.com 14.6 30 Berger WSR .221 3,083
Accuratereloading.com 14.9 30 Berger WSR .221 3,179
Accuratereloading.com 15.2 30 Berger WSR .221 3,225
Accuratereloading.com 15.5 30 Berger WSR .221 3,266
Accuratereloading.com 15.8 30 Berger WSR .221 3,295
Accuratereloading.com 16.1 30 Berger WSR .221 3,388
Accuratereloading.com 16.4 30 Berger WSR .221 3,468
Accuratereloading.com 16.7 30 Berger WSR .221 3,529
Accuratereloading.com 17.0 30 Berger WSR .221 3,592
Accuratereloading.com 17.3 30 Berger WSR .221 3,655 Accurate
Accuratereloading.com 17.6 30 Berger WSR .221 3,710
Accuratereloading.com 17.9 30 Berger WSR .221 3,778


N133 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Montdoug 18.2 20 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 4,080
Phil Maxwell 18.2 20 V-max Fed 205M .223 Warm
Dan C 18.5 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,040
Dan C 19.0 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,200

Todd Kindler 15.5 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,251
Todd Kindler 16.0 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,399
Todd Kindler 16.5 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,501
Todd Kindler 17.3 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,567
Alex 17.5 25 Berger Fed 205M .221 Fireforming load
Alex 17.7 25 Berger Fed 205M .221
Todd Kindler 17.8 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,641 Accurate
Alex 17.9 25 Berger Fed 205M .221
Todd Kindler 18.1 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,753 Approach carefully - accurate
Todd Kindler 18.3 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,842 Approach carefully - accurate
Todd Kindler 18.5 25 Berger CCI 400 .221 3,909 Approach carefully - accurate
17VLD 19.0 25 Starke Fed 205M ? Hot

Accuratereloading.com 15.0 30 Berger WSR .221 2,960 Claims 133 is too slow for Mach IV
Accuratereloading.com 15.5 30 Berger WSR .221 3,059
Accuratereloading.com 16.0 30 Berger WSR .221 3,166
Accuratereloading.com 16.5 30 Berger WSR .221 3,304
Accuratereloading.com 17.0 30 Berger WSR .221 3,336 Accurate
Accuratereloading.com 17.5 30 Berger WSR .221 3,433


BENCHMARK POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Phil Maxwell 19.3 20 V-max Fed 205M .223 Seat .015 into lands - turn necks to .0135
Dan C 19.2 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,030 Seat .015 into lands - turn necks to .0135
Dan C 19.5 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .223 4,100 Seat .015 into lands - turn necks to .0135

Lee in OH 16.8 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,352 22" TC barrel
Lee in OH 17.1 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,413 22" TC barrel
Lee in OH 17.4 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,486 22" TC barrel
Lee in OH 17.7 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,564 22" TC barrel
Lee in OH 18.0 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,539 22" TC barrel
Lee in OH 18.3 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,649 22" TC barrel
Dan C / Tom Moore 18.4 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,760 Turn necks to .0135 - cases hold .3 to .4 less than .221 - seat square into lands
Lee in OH 18.6 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,693 22" TC barrel
Lee in OH 18.9 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,776 22" TC barrel
Dan C 19.0 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,750 Turn necks to .0135 - cases hold .3 to .4 less than .221 - seat square into lands
Lee in OH 19.2 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,786 22" TC barrel
Dan C 19.2 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,800 Turn necks to .0135 - cases hold .3 to .4 less than .221 - seat square into lands
Lee in OH 19.5(c) 25 Starke CCI 400 .221 3,874 22" TC barrel - compressed load

BJS - Bryce 18.8 25 Berger CCI BR4 0.221 3,850 Mollied bullet. Hot Load. Start at 18.4 & work your way up to 18.8.

H335 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
Montdoug 19.7 20 V-max Rem 7.5 .221 3,850 26" barrel - temperature sensitive

Todd Kindler 19.0 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,808
Stevespages.com 19.0 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221
Todd Kindler 19.4 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,875 very accurate
Todd Kindler 19.8 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,909 very accurate - approach carefully
Stevespages.com 20.0 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221


AA2015 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
20

Accurate Arms 16.7 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,388 Commercial data for .221 brass - beginning charge
Accurate Arms 18.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,650 Commercial data for .221 brass - max.
Benchrest.com/sst/mach 18.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,850



AA2230 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
20

Accurate Arms 18.3 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,398 Commercial data for .221 brass - beginning charge
Accurate Arms 20.3 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,861 Commercial data for .221 brass - max.
Benchrest.com/sst/mach 20.3 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .221 3,850



AA2460 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
20

Accurate Arms 18.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,417 Commercial data for .221 brass - beginning charge
Accurate Arms 20.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,883 Commercial data for .221 brass - max.




AA2520 POWDER CHARGE BULLET WEIGHT BULLET PRIMER BRASS VELOCITY COMMENTS
20

Accurate Arms 18.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,316 Commercial data for .221 brass - beginning charge
Accurate Arms 20.5 25 Berger Rem 7.5 .223 3,768 Commercial data for .221 brass - max.

[Larry in VA]

I tried copying and pasting into a Word Doc and a Text Doc and neither would allow me to that.
However I didn't intend for you to go to all that trouble because vmthtr in Green Bay already did that and posted it in the SCLD forum (Small Caliber Load Data). http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1191

OH yeah, got your "Cooper Trigger Adj Instructions" at my email at work. Mystery solved on that missing email.
Larry