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  #1  
Old 03-18-2023, 12:39 AM
hemiallen hemiallen is offline
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Default Cooper Model 21 bolt -firing pin help- replacement?

I have a very nice LH model 21 in 17 Mk1V that came with factory ammo, and I have some 17 FB reloads that chamber and shoot very well.

To cut to the chase, my misfiring model 21 has 0.047" stickout of the firing pin, and my RH 20 Vartarg has 0.072" stickout. The Factory ammo has a 50% discharge rate so far, shallow dents that look like a chambered round from an AR that you removed vs firing it. The last round chambered but not fired

I pulled the bolt apart and noticed the side of the pin is very black, so I am guessing it might be shorter than when it left the factory. I don't want to swap pins or take down my Vartarg as I am hoping to stretch both of their legs soon, so I would love to get the 17 in working order for the trip with it's correct handed sister M21. The left handed Grandson isn't as shooting of a nut as Grandpa, so he'll get reloads for future range trips once she's back on her feet 100%.

With the only option a lesson on how the back bolt screw might be adjustable, I suspect a call to Cooper's new owner might be my only salvation for skippy flight school for this nice Cooper, and the optional second choice is a Remington 17 FB.

It shoots good, but hey 2 Coopers beats a handful of Remington 700's even with Jewel triggers.....LOL

Thanks for any help

Allen
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  #2  
Old 03-18-2023, 03:02 AM
Gabe221 Gabe221 is offline
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My guess is the spring took set over 30 years of being cocked in the rifle…
I just got done replacing a spring in a M21 , that used to be chambered in 17MK4
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  #3  
Old 03-18-2023, 04:28 AM
hemiallen hemiallen is offline
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Thanks Gabe

Where did you buy the spring from?

Allen
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  #4  
Old 03-18-2023, 02:13 PM
Gabe221 Gabe221 is offline
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Got mine from Cooper .

I order extra springs for all my rifles, and take out the pin when not in use, or store them in the fired position
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  #5  
Old 03-18-2023, 04:37 PM
Rick in Oregon Rick in Oregon is offline
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Allen, I'll not be of much help on that M21, but a little note on storing bolt guns in the safe may be helpful.

Every time I clean any of my bolt guns and it's ready to go in the safe, I lift the bolt handle up as if to open the action, then press the trigger while slowly letting the bolt handle down, thereby releasing all spring pressure on the mainspring without dry firing the rifle.

Been doing this drill now for over 40 years, never had a mainspring fail or bind up in any way.

Hope you get all your rat rifles ready for the upcoming assault.....Skippy is out 'n about I'm told as of this week. Tick-tock......
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  #6  
Old 03-18-2023, 04:54 PM
flyrod flyrod is offline
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If your 21 is like my 38 then the firing protrusion may be adjustable.

I'd also suggest taking it apart and cleaning it out completely. It may have brass shavings, carbon, dirt, grease, preservative sludge, etc. interfering with the pin. With the spring off, make sure the pin moves smoothly/freely. Then re-assemble with light oil on the pin, not grease or thick oil.

I once helped a friend with a rifle that would mysteriously misfire when cold, even with warm ammo from his pocket. The problem was thick grease on the pin that would get thicker when cold.

You could also check headspace with the ammo. How much slop does a loaded round have to "get away" from the pin? "Factory" ammo might be pretty loose in there.

Last edited by flyrod; 03-18-2023 at 04:58 PM.
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  #7  
Old 03-18-2023, 09:26 PM
hemiallen hemiallen is offline
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Thanks again for the feedback.

I have had her for I think 3 years, and I do usually drop the firing pin just as you describe Rick, but could have made that mistake. She is an early LH cooper, but still shoots like a cooper when it goes off, lol.

Flyrod, thanks for the suggestions. I did pull the bolt completely down, and 4 Q-tips of the 6" wood persuasion came out of the bolt body very black. I tried adjusting it with the back screw, measured with a Starrett depth gauge, and it didn't change. I'm thinking the pin is at fault not going out like my Vartarg does as reference. One other issue I removed from the post is the ejector button is just a dimple sticking out, I had to look at the vartarg to see IT has an ejector sticking out past the bolt end, the 17 looks like it was cut off , but it does depress hard but only moves maybe 50 thousandths about flush with the boltface with a heavy resistance. At first it looked like a spot weld from a wire fed welder, but depressed with a ton of force. I might drive the ejector pin and try removing it. I do agree it might be the Factory ammo has headspace allowing for the light hit. Makes sense, but it's got a fireball replacement on standby.

Got both the Vartarg and Ruger shooting tiny groups verified this morning- even the 17 FB moved up. Misses will be my fault, lol.

Thanks again for the help

Allen

Last edited by hemiallen; 03-18-2023 at 11:03 PM.
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  #8  
Old 03-19-2023, 02:00 AM
rider rider is offline
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hemiallen,
I have had that issue with my model 38's. I found that the screw in the rear of the cocking piece would loosen and not allow the firing pin to protrude past the bolt face far enough to strike the primer with sufficient force to fire the primer.
I received some guidance from this site and believe the issue is solved by locktite applied to the set screw in the bottom of the cocking piece. You might test this and see if it solves your problem.
Rider
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  #9  
Old 03-19-2023, 02:23 AM
hemiallen hemiallen is offline
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Thank you rider

I removed the set screw- anti rotation pin, then unthreaded the end screw and removed the remaining thread locker on the screw and the internal threads. Cleaned the bolt innards, returned the firing pin and spring and the cocking piece, loosley installed the pin through the firing pin hole, tightened the main screw and didn't measure any protrusion change leaving it loose, so I Locked the set screw. I guess the clearance between the set screw's pin and firing pin hole would allow some adjustment, but I couldn't see any gain. It looks to me to match my other model 21 the pin needs another .030" of length, but understand the spring would help it hit the primer maybe hard enough extra over it's current probably weakened state.

I'll remove the offending gun's ejector button and do some more looking, I am tempted to swap bolt innards but it's getting close to go time for both or one of them. I might take a closer look and find your fix might work, Crossed fingers.

Wishing I played with it more before F day ( Flight school ).

Thanks again

Allen
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  #10  
Old 03-20-2023, 01:02 AM
Danny Danny is offline
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Cooper being essentially being out of business right now has put a damper on my getting any more. Not sure if replacement parts could be procured.
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