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  #11  
Old 06-25-2013, 03:05 AM
Kevin Gullette Kevin Gullette is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 360Sideways View Post
The stated theory only holds true in a vacuum....
Nope.........

But yes......if a hammer and a feather.

Kevin

Add: Qualification........1. On a flat plane. 2. No outside forces other than forward velocity and acceleration due to gravity. A vacuum is not required, with objects of equal mass and displacement.

Other variables dealing with exterior ballistics can, of course, be considered.......but they ARE variables, which will give varying results.

Last edited by Kevin Gullette; 06-25-2013 at 07:34 AM. Reason: add
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  #12  
Old 06-25-2013, 03:30 AM
360Sideways 360Sideways is offline
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Well... I would have to respectfully disagree... Just got out my copy of B. Litz's Applied Ballistics to make sure after I posted... There is a small component similar to spin drift, but in the vertical axis. Very minor, but nonetheless there. Related to the axis of rotation not being perfectly in line with the bullets flight path. Aggravated by crosswinds and changes in twist rate. Specifically, an over-stabilized bullets nose won't bend to follow it's flight, causing it to impact slightly higher than a properly stabilized one. (this effect is there in all situations though, just more pronounced when you spin a bullet faster) This is only a few inches at 1000 yds. but it is a real product of Physics, which is what we were talking about, right?
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  #13  
Old 06-25-2013, 05:11 AM
360Sideways 360Sideways is offline
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The curvature of the earth, and the generally slightly nose high attitude causing lift are both things that would make a fired bullet land after the dropped one. A crosswind from the left has the ability to reverse that nose high attitude, pointing the bullet down, and moving the center of pressure to the top. This would cause the bullet to travel downward faster than gravity alone could take it, so it would land before the dropped bullet.
Because there are so many different Physical forces acting on the fired bullet that aren't acting on the dropped one, they will never behave the same way. Gravity is is a much smaller part of the equation for the fired bullet. (it's obviously still a very big influence)
As stated before physics plays a role in everything, and unless you can place the two bullets into the same environment (the vacuum) they will have different forces acting on them, and they will behave differently.
It's much more complex than a hammer and a feather...
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  #14  
Old 06-25-2013, 01:59 PM
360Sideways 360Sideways is offline
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"Other variables dealing with exterior ballistics can, of course, be considered.......but they ARE variables, which will give varying results. "

Exactly... Variables that are a direct result of "firing" a bullet...

"2. No outside forces other than forward velocity and acceleration due to gravity"

-the best way to come close to this is in a vacuum, thus eliminating most of the previously mentioned variables....
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  #15  
Old 06-25-2013, 03:35 PM
ramos ramos is offline
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Josh, question sent via PM.

Carry on guys, I will try to keep up. I do know that I have much more fun shooting bullets than dropping them.
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  #16  
Old 06-26-2013, 07:50 AM
Kevin Gullette Kevin Gullette is offline
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Post Point clarification.

"The stated theory only holds true in a vacuum...."

My ONLY point was to state that a vacuum is not required, for gravity to effect both objects, of equal mass and dimension, equally. Only a flat plane, and a static/constant atmospheric condition are needed.

A vacuum IS required if the two objects are of unequal mass and dimension.......i.e. the hammer and feather example.....which, btw, worked very well on one of the moon missions.

The real world effects on exterior ballistics are NOT a part of my stated point. But, one can review the works of Robert McCoy, Bill Davis Jr., and Kent Miller....to one's heart's content.....for a great wealth of information.

Kevin
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  #17  
Old 06-26-2013, 01:28 PM
Monster Man Monster Man is offline
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In 1963, the Museum of Science & Industry in Chicago had a display that demonstrated that an object launched at 90 degrees and an identical object droped at the same time the former was launched, both hit the ground at the exact same time. I was 15 at the time, and I stood there and watched the demo over and over, as I was amazed. I recall the distance being only about 20 feet, but it made enough of an impact on me that I have never forgotten it.
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  #18  
Old 06-26-2013, 01:36 PM
Alan in GA Alan in GA is offline
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Default I'm 62 years old and have learned....

I have learned that what goes UP in attic, must at some time come DOWN from the attic. I always ask my wife if the item she wants stored UP in the attic won't eventually come DOWN from the attic and then ONLY OVER LATERALLY to the curb at the end of the driveway for the garbage men to pick up. In the act of ASKING I hope to show that the UP/DOWN movement can be eliminated.
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