Question to fur hunters

varmintshooter · #1 01-04-2014, 04:09 PM

Up until this year I have shot varmints and predators with no concern for saving hides. This year things have changed as my buddies and I are saving them for a friend. I am shooting a 17 fireball with 20 v-max @4000 fps with good results so far. Other guys in our group are shooting 204, 223, 22mag etc. with some rather poor results. What I would like to know is, in general, what works best for you guys. We are shooting red and gray fox at present, out to about 200 yds.
1. high or low velocity
2. b-tips or hp's ( fmj -not legal)
3. light or heavy bullets (40 v-max or 60 nosler partion)
I realize that there is no " MAGIC " bullet or load but in general for example: is fast and lite better or is it all about shot placement. Are the 20 and 22 cal just to big for fox size game. TIA.

Tim Anderson · #2 01-04-2014, 04:32 PM

H.P. will always be the better bullet when it comes to saving fur period.
You peel the hide off of a red fox you will see there isn't much there.
I consider the 221 f.b. and 17 mach 4 to be about max for cartridge size.
Keep the shots in the chest or just behind the shoulder.

Keep the vel. down to 3200 fps when using heavy bullets...

ramos · #3 01-04-2014, 04:41 PM

We have very few fox and, I have never shot one so I am guessing here. Seems like a 20VT with Berger HP's might be a good option?

wally bennett · #4 01-04-2014, 06:13 PM

I have used a 17HMR with the 17gr V/M drop fox stone dead at 150yds on more that one occation and at the same estate hit 3 fox at 120yds with my 17A/H shooting 20gr V/Max at 3,650ft/sec and saw the three of them run off even though it knocked them down all to be found later dead in cover with big surface wounds.
I think that the extra 1,000ft/sec causes a surface splash because the bullet is designed to open up on contact and not penitrate i dont use 20V/M now on fox i use Noisler 20grhpfb and it stones them.
At the velocity that your gun is capable of use FP.s or Small hole HP,
Wally

varmintshooter · #5 01-04-2014, 10:05 PM

Thanks, I will be trying some hp's. I do have a few 25 grainers. One of the guys has a 221 fb so we will look for some 40 grain hp's for that.

GLWenzl · #6 01-05-2014, 02:05 AM

Would something like a thin shined hornady 45 gr hornet bullet work in the 221 fb?

georgeld · #7 01-05-2014, 05:53 AM

Very few fox in this area too.
Only one I've shot with a .17Rem, not sure what Steve's load was but ,it nearly blew the fox in half with a high behind the shoulder hit from about 30yds. Only other fox Iv'e ever killed was in the early 60's with a head shot .22lr. and it was brained and just tipped over backwards w/o kicking either.

For coyotes I learned quickly that 55gr SP's blow big holes out the other side and 40gr V'max's don't exit with a .223. It has a 14" twist. Coming out one night a coyote jumped out of a ditch into the trail right in front of me. I hit him in the L side of the butt and found it as a perfect mushroom under the skin of the shoulder. That was a 40gr V/max and wasn't over 30 feet. I sure expected that to blow his hip off. I missed the tail bone due to darkness and offhand with a snap shot. DRT too.
So far I've not shot anything with a 20 VT or .17V'raptor. Just got them and developed the loads when I got sick so haven't had a chance to get out since.
Have tried the .35gr V'max in the .223 too. Under 150yds they're very accurate. Over 200 and you can't be sure they'll even hit the hillside let alone where. I had a standing shot at a coyote maybe 90yds or so back in dead sunflowers about 10'. Should have been a dead dog, but, the 35gr bullet exploded on the hard stalks even though they were very small. The three dogs must have gotten stung from the chips as they sure ran hard and nothing would slow them down for over half mile. copper n lead chips on the stems showed what happened. So, in .223 don't use 'em! Go to the 40gr.

I also gave the 60gr in .243 a try. Blew a females head clear off except two inch's of skin on top. Head landed on her back. I just tossed that one in the brush.
Hope this helps, good luck and don't 'donate' those hides, put them up and get the money they're worth now.

L461 · #8 01-05-2014, 09:29 PM

Using Hornady v-max/z-max projectiles.

20 grain in the 17 Mach 1V at 3800 fps.

32 grain in the 20 VT at the same velocity

40 grain in the 20 PPC at 4100 fps

Rarely get an exit on body shots at 150 -300m

You are better of taking Headshots if you want top skins with anything else.

montdoug · #9 01-05-2014, 10:20 PM

I have shot a few fox over the years and with saving the fur in mind. Sure wish I'd a had a .17 Fireball/.17 MachIV back then shooting 25 grain Hornady HP's at a fair velocity. That is what I'd of used.

Old Hawkeye · #10 01-06-2014, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLWenzl

Would something like a thin shined hornady 45 gr hornet bullet work in the 221 fb?

The 45 Hornady Hornet is very easy on fur but I could never get the accuracy in cases larger than the Hornet. Other rifles may love them. Actually it wasn't all that bad in my Fireball. About a fat inch. I use the 40 Nosler BT @ 3300 with good results. Shot a coon awhile back @ 80 yards. Tiny entrance hole, no exit, hammered him on the spot. He was a big-0 Iowa coon & would guess him over 25 lbs. Turned his insides into Jello. Fur buyer didn't even notice the bullet hole. Another bullet that has worked for me is the Calhoon 37 gr. double hollow point. No splatters & rarely exits even on smaller critters. This is all with the 221 Fireball, which for 22 calibers is a fur hunters dream. Super high velocity in 22 cal. is your enemy when fur is your quest. Even the high velocity 17's will wreck things if you hit bone.