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  #21  
Old 10-04-2020, 11:15 PM
218bee 218bee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
WW brass, 12.6 grains Lil'Gun, Fed Small Pistol Primer and a 40 grain Vmax or Blitzking. Most of the guns do about 3100 fps with the load. Out of a few dozen rifles I have never seen a gun that would not shoot it into under an inch, many will shoot it into the .1 and .2s. You can't get enough powder in a 22 Hornet case to get pressure issues. I have shot tens of thousands of rounds of this load shooting gophers. Even at over 100 F I never saw any pressure issues. I have no idea what the guys that are reporting pressure spike are doing to get them.

I have seen over pressure loads using this powder in the 221 FB shooting 40 grain Vmax, SR primers, but that case has a lot more capacity and the loads were approaching 16.5 grains. I have also seen over hot loads in the 17 HH and the Hodgdon published loads are too hot for any of my 17 HH. I have found 9.6 grains lots hot enough in the 17 HH with 20 grain bullets. and SR primers. All in however I have never seen wild spikes in pressure, only predictable increases as powder is added.
All the information I found online mirrored what you found. The 221 Fireball and 17 Hornet had the pressure problems with Lil Gun. The only thing I found about the 22 Hornet were poor accuracy from some guns.
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  #22  
Old 10-04-2020, 11:16 PM
218bee 218bee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnly View Post
Here's some MP300 data from my rifle:
40 Hornady V-Max 11.5 MP-300 Fed 100 R-P 1.760" 2770
40 Hornady V-Max 11.7 MP-300 Fed 100 R-P 1.760" 2786
40 Hornady V-Max 11.9 MP-300 Fed 100 R-P 1.760" 2789
40 Hornady V-Max 12.1 MP-300 Fed 100 R-P 1.760" 2842
40 Hornady V-Max 12.3 MP-300 Fed 100 R-P 1.760" 2898
40 Nosler Varmiged 12.3 MP-300 Fed 100 R-P 1.760" 2863
40 Nosler Varmiged 12.3 MP-300 Fed 100 R-P 1.760" 2926
Thank you.
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  #23  
Old 10-04-2020, 11:58 PM
218bee 218bee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxhunter View Post
my canister say's 300 mp, i'm guessing it's the same powder.
Yes, it is the same. It was a typo of mine. Do you have any experience with it in the 22 Hornet?
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  #24  
Old 10-05-2020, 05:22 PM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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Interesting read, all of it.
Much depends on the rifle used, I guess and how they handle the pressure curve generated.
I've used, with RP brass, up to 12.5gr.LG with 40gr. HP's with total success in a Savage model 340 in Hornet.
My first CZ .22 Hornet digested 14,000rounds of LG loads in RP brass using (after the first year of 13.0gr.), 14.4gr. LG. I only sized 1/2 the neck and I crimped them using a Lee factory crimper.
Indeed, I would lube inside the necks and was only running them into a Hornady die to size 1/2 the neck, or a bit less than that. I did not have to lube the outside as my chamber was quite tight.
That might also have something to do with it, but would reduce the case capacity over a larger chamber. The FL die didn't even touch the sides of the case. My second CZ Hornet was similar, I guess.

WW brass will just hold 13.5gr. using the same methods & I used that load in my second CZ Hornet, for an even 3,200fps with 40gr. Varminators and Vmax.
I have never expanded a primer pocket nor locked up the action using LG, probably close to 20,000 rounds all together.
I cannot fathom what people are doing to have or generate problems with this stuff.
My second CZ also made groups very much under .5" at 100 meters using the loads & it did not care whether SRP were used, or SPPrimers were used. My first one pretty much demanded I use the pistol primers, so I used 105 Feds, mostly.
What LG did for me in the CZ's was to give me exciting ballistics and perfect performance & extremely good accuracy.
You have to admit, that with such thin brass, the primer pockets of the Hornet case are the week link. Neither of my Hornets EVER expanded a primer pocket.
I also went up to 13.3gr. W296 in the first CZ Hornet, for the same vel. as I was getting with 14.4gr. LG - 3,330fps with 40gr. HP's and Vmax - remember R-P brass. It's accuracy, while in the 1/2" range, was not as good as LG.

I loaded both rifles singly as my OAL's were way too long for the magazine. I seated the bullets out as far as possible & crimped. My SD's in both riles were under 20 - usually 17 to 18fps. They were over 30 or 40 if not crimped, iirc and not crimped, spreads of well over 100fps shot to shot were normal. I immediately started crimping after the initial test & reading an article by Ross Seyfried on the subject - back in maybe 2003/4 or so.

EDITED to include: A buddy of mine had a TC Contender that did not shoot well with factory or his loads using IMR4227. I experimented with it using up to 13.5gr. LG in R-P brass and it shot sub 1" at 100 meters with that load and 40gr. Vmax.
I did the same with another friend's Ruger .22 Hornet that shot 2" or more. The best I got out of it was 1 1/8" @ 100 meters with the LG loads, right up to my normal 14.4gr. load. My partially sized brass fit both of those rifles perfectly.
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Last edited by Daryl; 10-05-2020 at 05:39 PM.
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  #25  
Old 10-05-2020, 07:00 PM
SmokinJoe SmokinJoe is offline
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Here are some articles worth reading:

https://www.handloadermagazine.com/a-trio-of-hornets

https://www.slideshare.net/enganche1...on-winter-2012

I loaded a few regular Hornet last year, before the rifle was K'd, with 300MP and 40 Varmageddon with Fed SP and IIRC the load was 13.5 grs for a velocity of approx 3100 fps with no apparent pressure problems and excellent accuracy from the CZ 527 American. To me the 300MP is a pretty straight forward powder, like 1680 for instance, without sudden pressure spikes, etc that LG is known for.
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  #26  
Old 10-06-2020, 02:25 AM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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In well over 14,000 rounds of shooting 14.4gr. LG with 40 through 13.5gr. with 50gr. bullets in my CZ 527 - I never experienced anything but stellar performance in the R-P as well as lesser loads in the WW brass.
Incidentally, I was getting 3,080fps with 50gr. SP's.

I do recall at one time, there was a batch of LG recalled due to pressure problems. I have to wonder if THAT recall powder is the pressure spikes people continue to address that powder with as generality, today?
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  #27  
Old 10-06-2020, 02:49 AM
MIBULLETS MIBULLETS is offline
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13 gr of LG is too much for my Ruger 77/22Hornet that has been K'd. It likes around 12.5 gr. At that level I see no issues. The only thing I don't love about LG is that it is dirty. Almost like flakes coming out a the rifling if doesn't get cleaned often. I have no experience with 300MP, but will probably try it once my supply of LG gets low.
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  #28  
Old 10-06-2020, 06:11 AM
Flynmoose Flynmoose is offline
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I use LG powder in my 22 Hornets, 218 Bee, 221 Fireball and 25-20. I load my Hornets in Nosler brass with RP 6 1/2 primers, 40GR Varmageddon bullets and 11.5GR of LG. That load does well in all of my 22 Hornets. That load is much more accurate than the SR 4759 load I used years ago.
Bill
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  #29  
Old 10-06-2020, 04:32 PM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIBULLETS View Post
13 gr of LG is too much for my Ruger 77/22Hornet that has been K'd. It likes around 12.5 gr. At that level I see no issues. The only thing I don't love about LG is that it is dirty. Almost like flakes coming out a the rifling if doesn't get cleaned often. I have no experience with 300MP, but will probably try it once my supply of LG gets low.
There have been 2, maybe three guys on this forum who tried LG in .22 "K" Hornets and they also maxed out at about 12.5gr. - strange indeed. In the .22 Ackley Hornet I chambered up for my friend's Martini, I found 12.0gr. was about all we
could use. That didn't make sense, but that is the way of that rifle now.
I have heard or observed in print, that if the pressures are low, LG fouls. I never had a fouling problem with LG and indeed, even case necks took 8 to 12 firings before they eventually turned black.
When shooting rats with it, I'd go through no more than 200 rounds between cleanings. That was due to changing off rifles (with the .218Bee Ruger & .22 10-22 Ruger) through the day, so likely no more than 200 or perhaps 300 max, between cleanings at the end of the day. I never experienced fouling problems and used only Ed's Red in it as there was never any copper fouling.
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  #30  
Old 10-06-2020, 08:23 PM
Dean2 Dean2 is offline
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Daryl

I believe shoulder structure has a lot to do with pressure build up from Lil'Gun. The 221 FB has a much more pronounced neck than my 218 Bee You can't seem to get too mcuh in a Bee to create a pressure issue but I can in the 221 FB, the K Hornet same compared to the 22 H, and the 17 HH has both a sharper neck and smaller bore. I really believe that the much higher pressures is the result of the sharp neck. In 410 and straight wall pistol cartridges you never hear of pressure issues or spikes etc. I have only heard it in bottleneck rifle cartridges. I may be completely wrong but the pattern seems to be very distinct to me.
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