Saubier.com  



Go Back   Saubier.com > Saubier.com Forums > Small Caliber Discussion Board

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-09-2022, 08:42 AM
JDHasty JDHasty is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Wet side of Washington
Posts: 446
Default 6mm PPC Neck Bushing Die as intermediate step in forming 219 Donaldson Wasp? Thoughts

OK, so I slick up the 30-30 once fired cases I have with Imperial Sizing Die Wax before each step and they went through Form Dies, #0 & #1 w/o a hitch, but the shoulder collapses on the next step down with the #2 Form Die.

I gets ta’ cogitating and poking through my bag of tricks and low and behold I have a 6mm Rem Form/Trim die sitting here that I used to form cases for my buddy’s rifle. I run a case up into it as far as it will go and then into the #2 Form die and everything is going great until I get to where the neck has not been stepped down by the 6mm Form/Trim die then the shoulder wants to collapse.

I’m thinking of just cutting down a crappy 244 Rem Sizer die and using it, but my buddy has a 6mm PPC and I’m sure he would send me his Neck Bushing Die. If I am not mistaken the 6mm PPC uses the same 30 degree shoulder angle as the 219 Donaldson Wasp. That would allow me to get the neck down to 6mm all the way to the shoulder and would be the better option.

Before I spend a double sawbuck to send a die back and forth across the continent, I’m wondering if there is anything I am overlooking.

The Manual of Cartridge Conversions and everything I remember reading explicitly warns against annealing the case prior to forming 219 DW from any other parent case, but I tried annealing the neck on a case prior to running it into the #2 Die, on the off chance that might be the ticket. No such luck.

Last edited by JDHasty; 04-09-2022 at 08:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-09-2022, 01:43 PM
flyrod flyrod is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 203
Default

Do you know anyone local with a lathe? I use the threaded Lee die bodies and a lathe to make various custom sizing parts for my wildcats and experiments. With the threaded die body, all you need to do on the lathe is turn a cylinder that fits and does whatever sizing shape you're after. Maybe a local machine shop could make you a few different bushings for not too much.

As you're finding, if you can do a few smaller sizing steps instead of one large one the result and success rate is usually better.

Or, maybe you can just buy the formed brass from someone.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-09-2022, 03:22 PM
SEM SEM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sac CA
Posts: 275
Default

JD, I have spent HOURS trying to come up with the perfect Wasp case and LOTS of this die first attempts, Joined Face Book Club (The one where you plant your face against a book of appropriate size until you feel better) I have with the aid of a 6mm Wasp forming die pulled off some rather nice cases but still have dents quite a bit, The dents do iron out after firing. Then I bought some of EABCOs ready to go shoot brass and wish I had just spent the money on their brass rather than so many dies...

just my thoughts
Sunny

PS #1 Try Hornadys Unique lube I am a complete convert, I have converted a crap ton of cases with it, I haven't yet tried but have read olive oil works very well, I always forget about it by the time I get started, CRS these days
PS #2
Those pliers have come in so handy here I bought both sizes and think I might buy the pump plier too, Thank you for sharing

Last edited by SEM; 04-09-2022 at 03:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-09-2022, 04:01 PM
tred1956 tred1956 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 468
Default

I usually don't have much trouble forming 219 Wasp brass. I start with new 30/30 brass. Run it through a 30/30 Fl sizer die with guts removed. I then chamfer and debur. Then I lube ONCE. TOO MUCH lube is a common mistake when forming brass. I then set dies up in T-7 turret with all form dies in a row. Once I put a case in shellholder, it stays, I just rotate turret head. When I get through I have an almost formed case ready to trim to length chamfer & debur. Once the proper length is achieved the last step is through Wasp Fl size die and I am ready to load

I use Redding form dies and Imperial size wax

Hope this help
Doug
__________________
Enjoy life but remember, we are only practicing for something better.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-09-2022, 04:20 PM
Johnly Johnly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 883
Default

I have a set of set of Redding 6ppc from 7.62x39 forming dies and a 22 PPC die set. Let me see if I can find something that works.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-09-2022, 05:57 PM
JDHasty JDHasty is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Wet side of Washington
Posts: 446
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyrod View Post
Do you know anyone local with a lathe? I use the threaded Lee die bodies and a lathe to make various custom sizing parts for my wildcats and experiments. With the threaded die body, all you need to do on the lathe is turn a cylinder that fits and does whatever sizing shape you're after. Maybe a local machine shop could make you a few different bushings for not too much.

As you're finding, if you can do a few smaller sizing steps instead of one large one the result and success rate is usually better.

Or, maybe you can just buy the formed brass from someone.
I have a bucket of WW 30-30 and only use it for 7-30 Waters & 357 Herrett and would like to take advantage of it before buying formed brass.

I have been making cases for my buddy’s 6mm Remington from 30-06 by using a gutted 30-06 sizer then a gunshow special 7mm Mauser and 257 R dies that were a couple bucks each on the way down. Then they just need to be trimmed and reamed after going through the 6mm Form/Trim die.

The 219 DW set takes a big jump from the #1 to the #2 and going with a 6mm on the way looks to be all that it needs to get it through the #2 without the shoulder collapsing. It does fine until it gets to the point that the 6mm bottomed out.

Every once in a while I get lucky. My 17 Remington die is a legend around here, it does one pass 223 -> 17 Remington and every body else’s just collapses the shoulders. Back before every Tom, Dick & Harry had a 204 Ruger size die as an intermediate friends used to come by with a bucket full of 223 range brass and they were able to knock out five or six hundred in a couple hours. One forgot to swage out the primer crimps and had to visit me a second time after throwing the first batch away and really wasn’t all that upset because it works so slick.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-11-2022, 02:36 PM
SEM SEM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sac CA
Posts: 275
Default

I thought of something else to add, I do polish the dies when I get them or alter them and again after some heavy use to keep them working smooth. I use white buffing compound, For Hornady or Lee dies I start with red then white, Really bad dies I fit a dowel then wrap it with green abrasive paper, Lately some of the new RCBS and Redding dies need some work beyond just a simple polishing
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-11-2022, 05:26 PM
JDHasty JDHasty is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Wet side of Washington
Posts: 446
Default

Boy, isn't that the truth. I have found that the attention to details, like final polishing, are something I need to check on even the better dies. I've found that drilling out a case head and cramming an old brush in them then coating them and spinning them up with a cordless electric drill motor set to low speed works good. I use 800 grit lapping compound (only on really rough ones) followed by Flitz and that has worked well for me. Just Flitz makes a big difference on most though.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-11-2022, 10:55 PM
bcp bcp is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SW WA
Posts: 322
Default

I haven't made 219 DW for over 40 years. At that time I used cut-down sizing dies. I found I needed to create the final shoulder location with the first 30 cal shortened die. The progression was 30>27>6mm>22, with the last 3 forming only the neck and bumping the shoulder location to meet the neck.


I had no success moving the shoulder back with a smaller than 30 die.



Bruce
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-12-2022, 01:08 PM
Wiserfool Wiserfool is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 93
Default

I will add a vote for internal polishing of your die being an important factor. Not just a quick polish, a good thorough half hour polish. I use Flitz on a 45/70 bore mop and go to town with it chucked in a drill. Make the die internals glisten, use sizing wax in minimal quantities and your forming success rate will improve greatly.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.