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Old 12-28-2016, 06:33 PM
260Ackley 260Ackley is offline
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Default 204 or 223

Need some suggestions on a rifle for my brother. He is 16 and works part time jobs so money is tight. Thinking about a savage axis. He has one in 308 already and they are less then 300. He just got into predator hunting and as a trapper he wants to save the pelts. Which cartridge is better for saving pelts of fox and eastern coyote ranging from 35-45 lbs.
223 ammo is cheap and so is brass that would help him but I'm concerned about putting a load together that won't turn a fox inside out. Ranges will be 75-300 yds. I reload for him already so 204 won't be impossible just added cost of brass. This needs to be a do all varmint rifle. No colony varmints no extended shot strings.
Your opinions are welcome. If you suggest the 223 what bullet to minimize pelt damage. Keep to average cost bullets nothing custom or super expensive like berger please.

I should add I have brass and dies for 223 already but if 204 is that much better on pelts it may be worth the expense
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Last edited by 260Ackley; 12-28-2016 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 12-28-2016, 07:21 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Default 204 or 223

Since you are set up for 223, just stick to it for now. Look into the Midsouth Varmint express 224 50 grain sp. $47.00 per 500, Very reasonable in price and they will do as good a job on putting down a coyote, with minimal fur damage as most other bullets. Since you are looking at the Axis in 223 Rem, that rifle, I believe, comes with a 1/9 twist, so you could even go up into the 60-70 grain bullets and also save hides. Just my thought. Bill K
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Old 12-28-2016, 08:08 PM
tstowater tstowater is offline
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223 probably makes the most sense with the versatility and being cost effective to shoot.

That said, my preference is the 204. Pretty much point and kill to 300 yards on prairie dogs so coyotes should be a cake walk. Brass is available, just more expensive. I wouldn't think that he needs a terrible amount of brass for predator hunting so that shouldn't be the controlling issue. Not sure on bullet choice as I am into full destruction if possible on varmints.

Also, unless I missed something, does the Axis come in a 204?

Last edited by tstowater; 12-28-2016 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 12-29-2016, 12:05 AM
260Ackley 260Ackley is offline
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I've seen some for sale in 204 on the net. I have a ton of the varmint nightmare bullets in 34 gr in 22 cal I wonder if they would stabilize. If pushed at the right speed may be a hole in and no hole out.
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  #5  
Old 12-29-2016, 01:44 AM
RowdyYates RowdyYates is offline
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Just me, but I'd buy a Ruger American Predator (.204) instead of the Axis.
Fur-friendly bullet? Have to ask someone else; like the poster above, I just want 'em dead, so I use 35 gr. Bergers or 39 Sierra BKs.
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  #6  
Old 12-29-2016, 03:26 AM
l h jenkins l h jenkins is offline
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Default 223 vs 204

223. can down load to 22hornet, even 22 mag rimfire if desired. once fired 556 brass cheap and lc brass excellent quality. I like my 204 but nothing beats the variety found in the 223. it may not be the "queen of the ball" but sure is not an ugly duckling.
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Old 12-29-2016, 04:12 AM
drover drover is offline
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223 with 40 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, loaded to around 3700 fps, as flat shooting as a 204 out to 300 yds and I have never had an exit on a body shot coyote - one hole in and nothing out but it sure puts them down hard.

drover
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  #8  
Old 12-29-2016, 12:50 PM
tds_felix tds_felix is offline
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Blonde / Brunette / Redhead.....270 vs 30-06.......oh, the joy of debating in America!!

I have a 17 Remington that has dumped truckloads of coyotes for years shooting 25gr Hornady HPs / 28gr Calhoons / 29gr Golds. I do not own a 204, but based on my experiences with that 17 Remington.....it would work fine.

Preference has shifted over the past ten years to 223. Don't overlook some of the old-school bullets Hornady 50gr SX / Sierra 50gr Blitz or SMP / even 52gr or 53 gr match bullets work wonders.

I grew up in the Badlands area of SD so coyotes were the mainstay, with the occasional bobcat. Not many foxes in that area, but you would call one once in a while.

Go to loads from a very good friend of our family and a state trapper (Orvil Sandal) was a SX or Blitz or match HP from his model 722 pushed about 2800FPS. He had one in a 222, and another one that had been re-chambered to a 223.

Coyotes have a lot of life in them, so bullet placement still trumps. Frontal shots on coyotes and fox will not see exits. Broadside shots on coyotes will exit 25% with the match bullets.......less with the SX and Blitz. Broadside on fox.......kiss your lips and get them to face you.....them smoke 'em!! Or, you will need to break out your needle and thread.

Just another opinion......have a Great American Day!!
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Old 12-29-2016, 02:39 PM
260Ackley 260Ackley is offline
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Thanks for the replies guys. I will see him this weekend and purchase mentor him and see where it takes him. He has cars girls and college on his mind so I'm hoping to get through the fog.
I think he will be motivated though . He sent me a picture of his first gray fox he got last night. Shot it with a 17 hmr called in with my FoxPro he borrowed. He may be hooked.
I taught him how to hunt and have supplied a lot of his guns and ammo thinking it would be a casual hobby. He is now a more well rounded outdoorsman then me and shows no signs of stopping.
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  #10  
Old 12-29-2016, 03:59 PM
OKyote73 OKyote73 is offline
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Default 223 vs 204

I'm in felix's camp for fur............ I've shot hundreds of yotes with a 22/250 & 22/250Ai. Both excellent here in the wind. This year I put together a 20/222 for fur saving purposes, so far have shot 16. 32gr bullets have splashed on 2, then went to 35 Berger and out of 14 have had to sew up holes on 4. Called coyotes here I can usually pick my shots From 3-400 yds in. Being way more patient with my little 20/222 has yielded very good results but most have been frontal head/neck shots. I think the 223 would be the right choice with a 50-53gr bullet but shot selection still is a big part of the fur-saving equation. I wish him and yourself all good luck and Happy New Year to all!
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