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  #1  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:59 PM
toxo toxo is offline
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Default Case/bullet grip!!

I suspect the answer to this question is suck it and see but here goes anyway.

I shoot 17HH and for economy I like the 17gr Vmax bullet as sold by Henry Krank. Thing is, the 17gr is a boat tail bullet where all the other 17HH fodder is flat based. It's obvious to me that for the same seating depth the case will have less "grab" on the boat tail than the others especially as the diameter for all is the same so heavier bullets have to be longer but how much does the grip matter?

Recently I've been leaving out the crimping stage with varying results. To be honest with the weather we've been having over here I've not been on top of the whys and wherefores of the results but intend to be a lot more organised now things are warming up.

Your thoughts on the grip gentlemen please.
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  #2  
Old 03-16-2018, 01:51 AM
moorepower moorepower is offline
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I have never crimped a Hornet and don’t think I ever will. Vmax bullets mostly don’t care if they jump in MY guns. I try to jump .020 but many factory chambers are much deeper.
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Old 03-16-2018, 02:17 AM
TinMan TinMan is offline
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Like moorepower said, I don't crimp for my Hornets, just neck size and seat any bullets that don't have a cannelures (which is most of them for the Hornet). It may also depend on the specific powder and primers being used, as they may affect ignition to some degree.
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Old 03-17-2018, 03:36 PM
Dean2 Dean2 is offline
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I tried crimping the 22 H as many claim it reduces SD. It helped but it was a pain to do. I got SD down to single digits by using Small Pistol primers in the Hornet and small light rifle primers in the 17 HH so I don't crimp any more. If I were going to crimp I would make sure all cases were exactly the same length or do it as a separate step with a Lee Crimp die, where case length isn't as critical.

In your case I would most likely buy a bushing neck die and just add a little more neck pressure. Seems like an easier way to get CONSISTENT neck tension.
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Old 03-17-2018, 05:34 PM
Hog Patrol Hog Patrol is offline
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Not familiar with the Hornets but I have loaded rounds with an eighth of an inch of full bullet diameter in the case with accurate results.
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  #6  
Old 03-18-2018, 10:48 PM
toxo toxo is offline
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Thanks for the replies gents but how many of you have loaded the 17 grain Vmax? It's tiny and if you take off the length of the boat tail there isn't much left. I've read that the rule of thumb is one bullet diameter should be gripping.

Hog Patrol- Not sure what you mean in your last? Do you mean 1/8th short of the diameter of the bullet?
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  #7  
Old 03-19-2018, 08:38 AM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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I've loaded beau-coups 17 grain V-Max's in various rounds. As mentioned I neck size about the first third of the neck. Other then ammo for the AR's I've never crimped anything but straight wall pistol.
I too have read many years back that you need one caliber of bullet purchase in the neck for the projectile to function properly, while I like to have that amount I've had a number of rounds I've loaded for where I didn't have that much and they still shot great.
In particular the factory sub -.22 caliber rounds (.17's and .20's) all seem to have the lawyer proof giraffe like throat. I understand the reasoning, .17's and .20's spike pressure faster then larger calibers and the companies don't want someone to jam the projectile into the lands and have something let go. Some rifles shoot very well or even prefer a lot of jump but I'd like to decide for myself.
On the .17 Fireball I have as well as my CZ 527 Varmint Kevlar .204 R both of which shot well from the factory if loaded out to long to fit in the magazine as well as having little bullet purchase in the neck, both got the barrel set back and rechambered. Both ended up with minimum spec chambers with a zero free-bore throat. On both I can now use any projectile I want and seat em out to touch the lands with good neck purchase and they fit and feed out of the magazine just fine.
Down-side is both are now wildcats actually and in spite of the fact the factory ammo fits just fine it's unsafe as it's loaded for a bunch of free-bore that is no longer there. Both rifle are more accurate now too though and as I reload only anyway I'm good with it .
Greg Tannel overhauled both guns so that has a large affect too.
When I first got the .17 Fireball back and brass was way scarce I decided to try some factory ammo that uses the .20 grain V-Max. This is a 6 shot 100 yard group that averaged 4,100ish + FPS. Primer pockets were tight after firing but that's an up against the wall velocity so it's right on the edge. Sure wouldn't use it on a real hot day. Shoots like crazy though.



On my CZ 527 Hornady Hornet I don't use the magazine but one of James Calhoon's single shot followers that lets me reach well out there with the flat based 20 V-Max. To long to fit in the magazine however. Not sure I have seen any boat-tail .17 bullets beside the discontinued 30 grain Berger Match, just went and checked. Maybe the bullet purchase in the neck is part of why ya don't see em??
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  #8  
Old 03-19-2018, 05:45 PM
GLWenzl GLWenzl is offline
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I believe that crimping can be a very good tool to use if maybe using a certain bullet/primer combo or to just experiment with. I have found that in there has been times when I have seen the SD come down and groups improve because of a crimp.

That said, it’s seldom I’ve seen any bennifit from crimping anything 17 or 20 caliber although in one instance and as a last ditch effort I increased neck tension with no grip and saw change in slightly better groups.

I have loaded a lot of the 17/17s and they have been good to me. Mostly load/seat them to the full bearing surface and they load fine with no issues unlike the stubby 22 caliber 30 gr vmax that in some cases leaves me with a lot of bullet runout.... but then I don’t load the 17 gr vmax into much other than a 17-CCM.

That 17/17 is an amazing lil bullet!
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  #9  
Old 03-20-2018, 01:26 AM
dungheap dungheap is offline
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I've loaded lots of those little bullets with about a sixteenth inch of the bullet into the case. I single load them. If I were going to use a magazine, I'd seat them a little deeper, just to be careful.
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  #10  
Old 03-20-2018, 10:06 AM
toxo toxo is offline
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Thanks guys. As usual this is the place for real info.

I'm still fairly new to the reloading game and I only load 17 Hornet. It's the ideal round for the farms that I look after. Trouble is I load for me and my shooting buddy so not sure yet if I can get away with just neck sizing. Something to look at closer if I want to avoid crimping.
Both shooting CZ527s and he's been shooting a bunch of factory 20gr that came with the rifle whilst I've been playing with 17gr/20gr/25gr with various powders. Been using LilGun with mixed results, have some Lovex DO63 which is supposed to be an AA1680 equivalent and have some Trail Boss to experiment trying to find a quiet load.
Would be great hearing some your load data guys especially for the little 17gr Vmax for which I can find nothing at all
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