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  #1  
Old 04-05-2009, 03:22 PM
trevj trevj is offline
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Default 17 caliber swaging. Price of admission?

Been getting more interested in going small, as well as looking at getting started swaging.

Wondering what the price of admission is. Dies from the Corbins are pretty clearly priced, but I see other folks mentioned, but have not found much other info when I search the names at the time.

What's a set of dies, suitable for use in a decent reloading press, gonna cost a guy?
And who are the options besides the Corbins, that are still in business?

Cheers
Trev

Last edited by trevj; 04-05-2009 at 10:20 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-06-2009, 07:33 PM
iiranger iiranger is offline
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Default Wellllllll

Actually making dies is routine work for any machine shop. It is the specifications that you want to order -???-... "the rub" that is overcome by ordering "off the rack" from one of the "names." Yes, Mr. Dave Corbin is the "big noise" and has the most books and advice, magazine articles, Gun Digest articles, etc... at a price. Corbins.com or swage.com or ??? He also works on computers so there is no telling. Sharp man. His brother is less talkative and in the same line of work. Richard Corbin, rceco.com. I believe it is the Nemii brothers that make dies and convert reloading presses to use same. And C. Deutsch (sp?). You hang at sites like benchrest.com and they come up with contact info. Another is Mr. Larry Blackmon, of Louisana. These are home craftsmen that you cannot hurry. They do it right or not at all. Mr. Blackmon has a snail mail address in the Back of Gun Digest Annuals. Ones I have. From there, others come and go. And you might get a less than perfect set of dies from any of these. Most will "make it right." Custom, hand work, craftsmanship... Nothing from China, CHEEP, not yet anyway... luck.
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  #3  
Old 04-06-2009, 07:34 PM
iiranger iiranger is offline
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Default Oh yes,

Mr. Dave Corbin has sales. Once you buy something, if what you want goes on sale, you save... "business relationship" sort of thing.
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  #4  
Old 04-07-2009, 04:18 AM
trevj trevj is offline
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Thanks fer the Nickels worth iiranger,

Trying to rationalize the cost (and the wait) for a set of Corbin Dies isn't going very well in my head. That $800 or more, that a full set of dies is listed at, could buy me a whole large pile of little bitty bullets.

On the other end of things, there has been a lot of information handed out on a platter on the Corbin site.

Gonna have to look hard at the cost of a DIY effort, I suppose, and see how that compares. Probably enough to make a guy ante up his lunch money and just pay the man!

Seen enough passing references to different folks that were suppliers, that did not appear to exist, as far as the interweeb was concerned, that I was sorta starting to wonder what was up with that, and I suppose it boils down to a cottage industry that is a) swamped already and don't need to advertise, and b) populated by a bunch of folk that have got along just fine without the www, thanks anyway, if you know what I mean.

Kinda tantalizing to read mention made of Carbide dies and the like, but a bit frustrating to read that the maker isn't any more, or to read that the maker has passed, without filling all the orders outstanding, etc.

Oh well. Watch and learn, I suppose.

Cheers
Trev
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  #5  
Old 04-07-2009, 12:51 PM
ray h ray h is offline
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Default

Trev, I've been thinking about a 17 cal set of dies myself. The one thing that bothers me is the fact more companies are coming out with Green bullets and what the Park Service tried to do banding lead bullets. I'm not sure a home bullet maker can make a Green bullet with whats available to us. Does anyone know? Good dies are expensive!
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  #6  
Old 04-07-2009, 02:41 PM
trevj trevj is offline
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Re: "green" bullets. Corbins sells a powdered tungsten mix that they use to make lead free bullets. If they can get it, it's gotta be available from somewhere else as well, though the cost of buying a minimum qty may preclude doing so.

I read somewhere (maybe here) of someone using corn starch to make some quite effective short range bullets for ground squirrels and the like. Copper solids have been used for some time, too.

There's always a way...

Cheers
Trev
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  #7  
Old 04-08-2009, 03:56 PM
iiranger iiranger is offline
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Default I forgot...

"Swaging" is one route. I think it was Richard Corbin that did the article on "pound dies." Two big hunks of metal. One has "male." The other "female." You drop lead into the hole and litterly pound with a mallet. Big for front loading, lead bullets.

The other, especially with the "tiny" bullets is the lathe. You buy wire or welding rod or ??? and finish it to size with precision tools. None of this is cheap. Unless you are serious... expensive hobby. But if you are willing or want the very, very best [take a box of any factory bullets and weigh each one. Variation may surprise you.]... or, as Mr. Dave Corbin expounds, a retirement hobby... Your bucks, you callllllll.... luck.

PS You are correct. Cottage industry. Gun Digest Annuals have sources in directory going back before inet. Carbide dies are great for commercial use but when first I inquired, one set of dies, NO PRESS OR ANYTHING ELSE, cost as much as a Volkswagen car... which would have been much more useful to me... as said, luck...
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  #8  
Old 04-09-2009, 03:19 AM
trevj trevj is offline
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Funny you should mention "lathe".

I missed a CNC lathe that would have been a pretty good candidate for this sort of work, by about an hour, last month... Oh well. It was pretty nearly local, too.

The "Pound" dies have two issues that I can see clearly. One is the sheer physical labor in making one bullet at a time by swinging a hammer. The other is that there is a ready supply of cheap and available molds around, for casting bullets of a size where thumping one out with two hammer hittable die halves becomes a practical proposition.

Inappropriate uses of technology, for the end required.

There are fewer alternatives to come up with a decent usin' bullet for the sub-calibers. Swaging, and machined from solid, seems about it.
Manual machining is a slow way to starve yourself to death, chewing holes in your lips over trying to keep the tolerances on a batch of bullets from driving you up the wall...

Cheers
Trev
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  #9  
Old 04-09-2009, 02:00 PM
MIBULLETS MIBULLETS is offline
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Default Green 17 cal bullets

In Dave Corbin's early writings I saw where he discussed making 17 cal bullets from solid copper wire. Same stuff you wire your house with, whatever guage fits closest in the die. They wouldn't expand much but cheap to make and shoot, once you have the dies anyway.
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  #10  
Old 04-11-2009, 05:36 PM
gunhaus gunhaus is offline
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Actually the solid copper wire bullets are bit trickier than that. We cut a correct length piece, swage it up to nearly bullet diameter, then you need to drill a hole in the end to help the point "flow around" and form. Depending on the hole you drill they can be quite violent. But, they are time consuming to make, and a bit tricky to make really precisly. AND, they don't form worth a hoot in the hand press dies. Too much pressure required. We use our hydrualic presses to work with these. We are working on our lathe set up, and a couple of dies right now, that should speed the proccess and precision. It's a fun facet of bullet making though!

-John
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