A bit of confusion about Cooper lineage

[georgeld]

Hmmm, sure looks like I missed out on some 'reading material"

Kiwi: you'd best listen to that lady, remember, she's biggern you!!

I've learned a whole lot from this board and thank everyone past n present for sharing their keen knowledge with the rest of us.

[Kiwishooter]

Originally Posted by georgeld

Hmmm, sure looks like I missed out on some 'reading material"

Kiwi: you'd best listen to that lady, remember, she's biggern you!!

I've learned a whole lot from this board and thank everyone past n present for sharing their keen knowledge with the rest of us.

George you didn't miss out on much, just some words strung together to elicit a reaction......glad Alex deleted those posts.

Doesn't matter if she's biggern me ..........she can shoot, she came second in the 200HV last weekend, conditions were a bit rough. There were more groups biggern 2" than there were groups smaller than 1" at 200........Helen was the only one to keep all her groups under 2"

BTW it was me that placed ahead of her in the 200HV.......Kiwi

[fiddlefadel]

Alex when you say to take .020 off of the model 38 are you referring to the bolt face?

Thanks
Dave

[Kiwishooter]

Originally Posted by fiddlefadel

Alex when you say to take .020 off of the model 38 are you referring to the bolt face?

Thanks
Dave

Dave I have extracted the bit in Alex's post which referred to shortening the ejector arm. This would allow the bolt to travel 20 thou further back before ejecting the case.

Alex I remember the articles about the "new" model 38 in SCN, there were even some comparative photos of the old & new model 38 bolt and the model 21.......Kiwi

Originally Posted by Alex

Fix was simply, you just took the ejector arm out,ground off about 20 thou from the face and all was honkey-dorey.

Alex

[Alex]

... NOT THE BOLT!

In the older 38s there was a spring about an inch back under the bolt that popped up and flipped the case our. On the new ones, there is a small ejecter lever that does the same thing. Trouble is that the lever is too wide (front to back) and to allow the plastic tipped unfired loads to eject, you have to remove the lever from the action and remove the 20 thou from the front.

Alex

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Alex

Originally the M38 was available in Hornet case family chamberings, and was such a neat little action that folks were having them modified to use some of the 221FB cases. Dan Cooper like to have had a hissy fit about that since he was terrified that the action wasn't strong enough. Todd Kindler had bugged Dan to chamber the M38 in 17M4.

I acquired one of the first M38s factory chambered for the 221FB family cartridges in early 2006, having ordered it (a Classic in 17M4) about 6 months previously when it was announced. It weighed the same as my M38 in 17AH. I wrote it up for SCN that summer.

One of the faults of the modified M38s was that the ejector hicky was placed just a touch too short. It wouldn't let you unload a chambered round with a plastic tip (25 gr VMax in the 17M4, 32 gr Blitzking in the 20VT). An easy mod, but Dan Cooper never changed the design of the ejector, nor, I think, did Hugo when he took over the company. Fix was simply, you just took the ejector arm out,ground off about 20 thou from the face and all was honkey-dorey. At the time I asked Dan Pickett, the general manager, if it took a 2x4 to get Cooper's attention.

I really liked the "new" M38, and still own three of them. Considerably handier than the M-21 in the 221FB family cartridges.

Manufacturing problem was that the M38 actions in 17M4, etc., and the Hornet case family were different bolt faces with attendant increase in inventory for bolts. Not sure how long ago Hugo dropped the Fireball case M38 from the line, but I do understand it. I also don't know if the current M38s are the same as the pre 2005 versions or not.

Be glad to e-mail anyone interested a copy of the manuscript that shows the difference. Think it came out in the Winter 2006 issue of SCN.

Alex

I know this is an old thread, but I happened to be looking at some old saved information, read it, and wondered about something.

Alex, or anyone, for that matter, do you know if the model 38s that were factory chambered for the 221 Fireball family were ever also offered in left hand rifles?

Thanks,

Danny

[Kiwishooter]

Originally Posted by Danny

I know this is an old thread, but I happened to be looking at some old saved information, read it, and wondered about something.

Alex, or anyone, for that matter, do you know if the model 38s that were factory chambered for the 221 Fireball family were ever also offered in left hand rifles?

Thanks,

Danny

Yes they were I almost bought a L/H 20 Vartarg.............Kiwi

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Kiwishooter

Yes they were I almost bought a L/H 20 Vartarg.............Kiwi

Thanks for the info. Kiwi. I am going to keep watching for one in LH, but I suppose that it might be difficult to find. Right now, I am having enough difficulty in finding a basic LH Model 21 Varminter or Montana Varminter in something like .223, 17 Remington or .204 Ruger, etc. I might have to broaden my search to one of the classic versions as well.


Danny

[Kiwishooter]

Originally Posted by Danny

Thanks for the info. Kiwi. I am going to keep watching for one in LH, but I suppose that it might be difficult to find. Right now, I am having enough difficulty in finding a basic LH Model 21 Varminter or Montana Varminter in something like .223, 17 Remington or .204 Ruger, etc. I might have to broaden my search to one of the classic versions as well.


Danny

Danny if you are looking for a "used" L/H Cooper they do come up but not very often.
I have never purchased a new Cooper, well except for a R/H model 21 action, and I first started looking in 2005 for a L/H model 38, it took 6 years to find a used L/H model 38 for sale, and that was in a rimmed cartridge.
But then I am restricted to places like Gunbroker and other websites.

During that time (2005 - 20011) I saw a few L/H model 21's for sale as well as a couple of model 22's, and one model 57M. Usually when I saw one another one or two would pop up within a month or so for sale.

I have bought a 22 Montana Varminter, 21 VE, 21 Classic, 38 Jackson Varminter and a 57M Classic all used............Kiwi

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Kiwishooter

Danny if you are looking for a "used" L/H Cooper they do come up but not very often.
I have never purchased a new Cooper, well except for a R/H model 21 action, and I first started looking in 2005 for a L/H model 38, it took 6 years to find a used L/H model 38 for sale, and that was in a rimmed cartridge.
But then I am restricted to places like Gunbroker and other websites.

During that time (2005 - 20011) I saw a few L/H model 21's for sale as well as a couple of model 22's, and one model 57M. Usually when I saw one another one or two would pop up within a month or so for sale.

I have bought a 22 Montana Varminter, 21 VE, 21 Classic, 38 Jackson Varminter and a 57M Classic all used............Kiwi

Kiwi,
Yes, I was primarily looking used, maybe new, but received by one of the Cooper sellers that takes photos. of the rifles and posts them online. I don't want to order and find I paid that much to get something really plain for wood. I bought a LH 38 Montana Varminter (22 Hornet) a little over a year ago (used) and am looking to buy similar in a used 21. I have seen them in the past, of course, when I didn't want to buy one. I know it is just a matter of time. I will have to keep looking.

Danny