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  #11  
Old 06-05-2020, 03:31 PM
foxhunter foxhunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Few if any have been given credit where credit is do on cartridge design and work.
Ackley has been abused and insulted IMHO.
Rick Jameson got beat out and blackballed over his work. Glad to see he is back writing some again.
JD came up with a few, but majority were knock offs of PO’s stuff using rimmed cases.
The 280AI once SAMMI spec’d is not as big of a gain. Guys were going by guess and by golly on pressures.

As most here know, when new brass shows up there are hundreds if not thousand working on a new better wildcat.

What chaps most of us I think is when they change the shoulder angle by 1/2 of a degree and shorten or lengthen the neck by .0100 and deem they have come up with the new best what ever.

Guys knock the 22 Nosler. I am going to give it a try in the Howa mini. No muss no fuss on bolt face diameter and it looks like it will feed using my 6.5 Gendel magazine. Folks pooh pooh the rebated rim, the 284 had no love for a long time, now it is more accepted than ever. The 6.5-284 may well be the reason for the enormous amount of interest in the 6.5’s today.

Look back to the late 70’s and 80’s, if you asked about a 6.5 anything in most GS’s they would think you liked unicorns and rainbows.
you forgot the 17 vha, paul roger was the first I heard of the 17x28, when I had kevin weaver chamber mine he ran the reamer in deep so I changed the name because the power capacity was different and I didn't want anyone to use my loads in the 17x28. then 10 years later the 17 vha was created and I got my hands on a 17 vha case and it had the same capacity as the 17x28.
in these cases .2 of a drain can take you in to flattened primers and .4 the primers falling out of the cases.
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  #12  
Old 06-05-2020, 10:59 PM
moorepower moorepower is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post
Hornady should give Robert Whitley some kind of credit for the 6mm ARC. He is the originator of the 6mmAR cartridge. I own a 6mmAR AR-15 and it is great cartridge. His website is: 6mmAR.com
The 6mmAR uses a .30 AR case I think. side by side the 6AR is a larger O.D. Credit if any would go the the Russians for the 7.62 X39 which is the parent case for the PPC AND the 6.5 Grendel, which after all is just plagiarizing the 7.62x39. I constantly see this broad brush of just calling every thing that comes out as something not new which in reality is true, but it would be really easy to point back to the 7.5 Swiss as being the idea for everything with a shoulder. The 6.5X55 could really be said as the father of the .30-06, and every .473 rim produced after as just changing the shoulder angle or pushing it back and necking down. "Plagiarism" of the 6.5X55. In reality other than the 7.5 Swiss their are NO really new rounds, just knockoffs. The 7.62X39 fathered the .220 Russian, .22PPC, 6PPC, the 6.5 Grendel, and now the 6mm ARC. All any of them did was neck it down and move the shoulder back or change the angles. To me the 6mm ARC is a paternal twin to the 6PPC. Anyone can have a reamer made, but few go thru the process of doing the pressure testing, load development, determining the best freebore, rifling twist and going though the process of doing the engineering for SAAMI to get a round standardized for mass production of FACTORY ammo. If the factories were not doing this, how many gun mfg. would still be in business, let alone powder suppliers, bullet and brass makers. If we stopped at the originals, we would have the .22lr, 22 Hornet, and 7.5 Swiss in our gun safes, and even the 22H is not really an original. It would be a pretty boring world for us, because it would be vanilla every day and not many gun mfg, barrel makers, bullet makers ...... were in business because without new products it all would die off. I used to hear all the time, 'hell, I can do everything with a .30-06" and if I can't I don't need to do it, which is probably true. Personally the 7.62X39 did everything I wanted to do in an AR platform that a 6.5 Grendel would do, as it was used as an under 100yd thumper. I am interested in what this will do with a 87 Vmax for Pdogs when the wind is blowing. I have no idea when the barrel will show up, but I pulled the trigger and ordered one to find out. With the WooHan I probably will only be able to find out on targets and steel this year sadly. Instead of bashing every thing that comes out be happy, that it is keeping our firearms choices alive and thriving. It does not mean that you have to buy it. Rant over, possibly.

Last edited by moorepower; 06-05-2020 at 11:33 PM.
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  #13  
Old 06-06-2020, 03:05 PM
moorepower moorepower is offline
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It just looks a bit larger on the photo. Either way it's a necked down 7.62X39 or and improved 6PPC.
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  #14  
Old 06-06-2020, 06:50 PM
squirrel_slayer squirrel_slayer is offline
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It goes both ways. Sometimes people make the subtle changes to avoid patent issues since the proprietor wants it all to themselves. 6.5g went through this in the beginning (.264 lbc, 6.5css) and look at the 300 whisper. He wanted to keep it all to himself and AAC capitalized on it a decade or so later with the 300blk and left the whisper in the dust. (although they are very similar)

Being an infant wildcatter myself I see no harm making improvements in a cartridge to suit your fancy. The way I look at it is if what is available isn't doing it for you or you want a slight change in throating for that new wizbang bullet that hit the market, a new reamer is often needed.....so why not tweak the whole thing?

Case in point with one of mine. Yes I could have bought a 6x45 barrel or rented a 6x45 reamer....but I knew I wanted to utilize the 105gr nosler RDF and I wanted to keep the bullet as much out of the case as possible to maximize case capacity.

I could have just chambered in 6x45 and throated it with a throating reamer sure...or had a custom ground 6x45 reamer with said throat well reamer costs the same. Figured I'd "modernize" it by going to a 30' shoulder and why not blow the case out some to gain some case capacity.

Now I have exactly what I want. I can use a modified collet die to neck size brass. Making a shoulder bump die with the chamber reamer and a $20 PTG die blank is easy. And if the brass ever gets to where it needs a FL resizing then it will get tossed to the recycle bin and out comes another batch of abundant 5.56 brass and start over. Fire forming loads can be plenty accurate for shooting critters or when i'm shooting closer distances so no loss there.

And when you just so happen to have reamers laying around and pieces of cut off barrels in the scrap box all kinds of nutty things happen. Wildcats upon wildcats upon wildcats....it's a disease really.
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