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  #1  
Old 10-26-2012, 02:01 PM
22_boomer 22_boomer is offline
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Default COL of the 20 and 22 Garin cartridge?

I was just thinking about maybe doing an odd little rifle and was wondering what the over-all length was for a 20 Garin using something like a 34gr bullet and the over-all length of a 22 Garin cartridge with a 40gr bullet. I was hoping somebody here on Saubier might have one of these cartridges in a rifle and could give me the COL. I looked on the Garin web site and there is plenty of info on the cartridges but no over-all cartridge lengths are listed. I know these cartridges are proprietary designs but I was a bit still surprised that the COL was not listed.
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  #2  
Old 10-26-2012, 02:31 PM
william t. oviatt william t. oviatt is offline
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Several ways to find the answers.
I agree, the info should be on Garins site.
The 22 Garin is the same, for this situation, as the 22 Pee Wee and there is info on the internet on these.
Call Paul Garin and he will immediately tell you. He will probably put it on the site, as a result of your asking.
My trick on finding a seating depth for a cartridge is to look at a similar sized one in the loading manuals.
For my 6mm Garin, I would check the seating depth of a 6PPC for the bullet I planned to use. COL minus brass length, then add this to your Garin brass length, and you have a good starting place for any bullet.
I do not have 20 or 22 Garins anymore-maybe someone that ha one will pop in, But that above "trick" has got me started on many a wildcat cartridge.
I will check my loading notes, and if I have those figures, will post later.
Bill

Last edited by william t. oviatt; 10-26-2012 at 02:34 PM.
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  #3  
Old 10-27-2012, 01:25 PM
dustycuss dustycuss is offline
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Wink might be able to help

I have a 20 Garin that Bill Oviatt (thanks Bill) sold me. I make a "seating depth" tool by using a jewelers saw to cut 3 slits lengthwise on the neck of a resized case. Put a bullet in and carefully chamber. Rifling sets the bullet back to "just touching" length. Measure carefully so you don't move the bullet in the neck. Most likely, your chamber was cut with the same spec PTG reamer as mine. If you want me to send you the oal for several different bullets in the 20 Garin, let me know and I can do it Sun or Mon. Best to email me directly at djkspop@verizon.net
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  #4  
Old 10-27-2012, 07:03 PM
22_boomer 22_boomer is offline
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Actually the reason I was wanting the COL of the two Garin cartridges is for magazine size. Since the cartridges are based on the M1 Carbine cartridge I wondered if they might fit in an M1 Carbine magazine. I guess an alternative is the 5.7mm Johnson or 22 spitfire that Johnson designed to work in the carbine action. The 5.7 Johnson is an old design but had pretty good velocity with a 40gr bullet -- something like 3000fps. I just thought the Garin versions might make a better choice.

Last edited by 22_boomer; 10-27-2012 at 07:06 PM.
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  #5  
Old 10-27-2012, 09:33 PM
johno johno is offline
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Boomer I would be interested in the measurement also on both those cals. How about you give Paul a call, time zones make it difficult from here. he only shows a COL for the 17 in his manual, think they missed the others. Would be good if he put them on his web site

Johno
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  #6  
Old 10-27-2012, 11:59 PM
GrdhgKiller GrdhgKiller is offline
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I got a CZ527 in a switch barrel in the 17 & 20 Garin. It is built on their 22 Hornet action using the CZ 221 magazine and there in plenty of room left lengthwise in the magazine. I don't know how this info would help you for a 30 Carbine magazine. Anyway Garin lists their case/ brass length at 1.290" max. My formed case avg. 1.275 ". For my 20 Garin using the 32 grain Z-Max the COL is 1.767" at .010" off the land. That leaves approx. .153" of bullet base in the case neck. The 32 grain Z-Max by the way avgs. .645" long. My 17 Garin COL. with the 25 grain V-Max is 1.766". By the way the COL of the 20 Garin using the 32 Z-Max to the lands from the bullet ogive is 1.358" and for the 17 Garin is 1.402" As suggested before a call to Paul Garin and he probably could tell you if the 30 Carbine and magazine would work. Bill

CZ Magazine with 20 Garin/32 Z-Max
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Old 10-28-2012, 01:25 AM
johno johno is offline
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Bill, Are you happy with the feeding of the case through the 221 mag? I use the modified CZ hornet mag by Jim Calhoon for my badger. Just wondering if the 221 mag is a better option.

Johno
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  #8  
Old 10-28-2012, 01:35 AM
GrdhgKiller GrdhgKiller is offline
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Johno, I usually only place two rounds in the magazine as the magazine spring is quite strong. This means I have move the bolt forward quite briskly to load a round. It always feeds reliable though with no hang ups. For my local groundhog hunting having two rounds available is usually all you can get off before the quarry disappears or to have as a follow up shot if require to finish off the groundhog.
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  #9  
Old 10-28-2012, 02:01 AM
johno johno is offline
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Thanks Bill, wonder if a hornet spring having less tension would solve that

Johno
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  #10  
Old 10-28-2012, 01:40 PM
22_boomer 22_boomer is offline
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[quote=GrdhgKiller;153806]I got a CZ527 in a switch barrel in the 17 & 20 Garin. It is built on their 22 Hornet action using the CZ 221 magazine and there in plenty of room left lengthwise in the magazine. I don't know how this info would help you for a 30 Carbine magazine. Anyway Garin lists their case/ brass length at 1.290" max. My formed case avg. 1.275 ". For my 20 Garin using the 32 grain Z-Max the COL is 1.767" at .010" off the land. That leaves approx. .153" of bullet base in the case neck. The 32 grain Z-Max by the way avgs. .645" long. My 17 Garin COL. with the 25 grain V-Max is 1.766". By the way the COL of the 20 Garin using the 32 Z-Max to the lands from the bullet ogive is 1.358" and for the 17 Garin is 1.402". As suggested before a call to Paul Garin and he probably could tell you if the 30 Carbine and magazine would work. Bill

Bill,
Thanks for that info -- the COL you have on the 17 and 20 Garin are both less than the COL of a standard M1 Carbine cartridge. The carbine rounds I have are UMC and the cases measure 1.287" with the round's COL of 1.655" so your 17 and 20 caliber Garin rounds look like an easy fit in a M1 Carbine magazine. I'll try calling Paul Garin sometime this week to get the COL on a 22 Garin with something like the 40gr Berger bullet Paul has on his spec sheet. Not sure what bullet I'd use yet although I like V-max type bullets but they seem to be on the longer side.

Last edited by 22_boomer; 10-28-2012 at 01:45 PM.
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