Quetions of you AR guys

[georgeld]

Doug, Kenny, Ray??

Knowing a bunch of you other old timers here spent some time in 'Nam playing games with the
M16's. How many of you had problems with them sticking a case in the chamber and pulling the rim off instead of ejecting??

I'm reading 'at' a big stack of magazine's that have piled up for yrs. Came upon a Rifleman issue Jan? 1968 that had been donated at sometime in the past.

Quite an article about testing and making changes to chambers, powders, buffers, barrels, bolts, bullets and such trying to find out why they kept jamming up and fouling.

Figure it would be of great interest to some of you current AR guys to read this article. I'll make an offer here: First one that pm's your mailing address gets this mag n/c in the mail just because I'm a helpful type guy in hope's once you've read it you'll either post it here for everyone, or pass it on to another.

[Stevo]

The problem was gunk building up in the chamber and the bolt sticking. Hot humid air made the fouling build up. If you kept it clean you were OK. This was why they came out with the forward assist.

We also had problems with the 3 prong flash suppresor getting hung up in the thick jungle vegetation. Thus the A2 Birdcage.

I remember the first time holding an M16 and seeing the Mattel Toy Co. stamped on the stock. The tolerances in maching were terrible. They rattled horribly. But surprisingly shot well. Even as a kid from NJ who only hunted with a shotgun I managed to score Sharpshooter on the range.

[ohnomrbillk]

I did not serve in the military, nor am I of the Vietnam era, but I read other problems occurred.

The gas system was designed for ball powder.

It is my understanding the original ammo was loaded with stick powder and the larger kernel size gummed up the original gas system.

[Bill K]

It is mainly a problem with the chamber building up crud/dirt. Most carried and broke case extractor (Brownells and other sell them). Main thing for you to do, is clean your chamber, bolt carrier (inside and out) probably more often then you are doing. Sound like you are firing a good amount of rounds and then the problem begins. Clean rifle, wipe down ammo, when you reload and it should stop. But I would still buy a Broke case extractor and carry along, when out and about. Bill K

[9DivDoc]

Originally Posted by georgeld

Doug, Kenny, Ray??

Knowing a bunch of you other old timers here spent some time in 'Nam playing games with the
M16's. How many of you had problems with them sticking a case in the chamber and pulling the rim off instead of ejecting??

I'm reading 'at' a big stack of magazine's that have piled up for yrs. Came upon a Rifleman issue Jan? 1968 that had been donated at sometime in the past.

Quite an article about testing and making changes to chambers, powders, buffers, barrels, bolts, bullets and such trying to find out why they kept jamming up and fouling.

Figure it would be of great interest to some of you current AR guys to read this article. I'll make an offer here: First one that pm's your mailing address gets this mag n/c in the mail just because I'm a helpful type guy in hope's once you've read it you'll either post it here for everyone, or pass it on to another.

Operation Kingfisher 1967 RVN

I have veteran buds who were on this op and pretty much tell the same
tale of whoa with their non chrome lined bores and chambers and cheaper powered ammo......with dead mates as a result.

By time I got there -1969 the bores were chrome and we had a forward
assist....although I carried a "branch catcher" flash hider on my issued
M-16 and operated in some pretty thick jungle (Mekong Delta and occasional foray across the border) I can't recall getting it caught in branches unless
I went out of my way to get it caught once just as an experiment after I heard it called that by some of the guys in my platoon.

We operated off "the boats" on rivers and spent lots of time fording rivers,canals and during the Monsoons spent day and night wet & muddy
as did all our equipment.

We used LSA and generously and flushed out of weapons in diesel fuel
when we got back to our firebase after 4-6 day ops and ambush patrols.

Bad magazines often as not contributed to many failures but maybe I was
lucky in that our platoon Sgt was a real stickler for clean weapons and
well lubed weapons...I honestly don't recall many malfunctions that were
not quickly cleared and I was one of those who liked to shoot and did so
as often as possible..

[TinMan]

Many things I have read over the years. First the powder was changed from stick to ball, then had to change the powder coatings on the ball powders, tghen McNamara nixed the cost of chroming the chambers, and finally the rank and file troops were instructed to not have to clean the weapons, at least not until weapons started to jam up. Massive cluster all the way around.

[Eagle_view]

9ID 3/5th Cav and 4/47th Mobile Riverine Force 1968-69 2 tours 11B and 84B with 9th Signal. I found the M16 to be an amazing rifle, Accurate, little recoil and light weight. Hated the 3 prong flash suppressor.

There were some problems but the chromed chambers/barrels, better ammo and a regiment of cleaning everything very well made this a great weapon for that war. I believe that a lot of the complaints that were sounded were by Marine units.

Late in 1969 I had a occasion to spend a week just south of Dang Nang with a Marine Company that was Civil Action Patrol focused. These guys live in the villages, taught basic government procedures, sanitation, built or repaired schools and wells fixed other facilities and did both day and night time patrols and ambushes. The CQ was in an old French Plantation Villa

When I drew an M16 from their supply because the CO wanted me better armed while there than I was with just my 45, I was surprised when the supply clerk through a bloody fit when I broke down the bolt and cleaned it. The bolt was absolutely fifthly with carbon and would not have been fielded by the Army in that condition. The rest of the rifle was of course very clean and well cared for.

It seems that their SOP was that only a Armorer at the Brigade level or higher was allowed to take the M16 bolt apart. I am not faulting the marines that were operating under procedures that had not changed from the M14 but their uppers had set them up for failure by not changing procedures and processes.

I spent a lot of time teaching everyone in that Company how to breakdown clean and reassemble their bolts. I have no other experience with other marine units but was glad to have been able to help them with that problem.

Policy and Procedure is not often mentioned in the discussions on the M16 failures but this was a new rifle for everyone and we had a lot to learn.

Let me take this opportunity to remember all of those that have given so much for our country. Let us pray for true freedom and peace but be willing to stand for what is our core rights.

Lowell

[Iowa Fox]

Did not have a M16 assigned to me. I had a M14-1911-and a Win M12 Roit gun. I did shoot the early M16s some but had no problems. The 1911 went out with me every day, the M12 depending on where we were going, and almost never touched the M14. I'm not sure where the 1911 and M12 might be today if they are but they could sure write a book.

[sluggo]

Thank you guys for your service

[Johnny C. Kitchens]

I thought the Mattel thing was myth made up by M-16 bashers...