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  #51  
Old 07-08-2018, 05:45 AM
223Short 223Short is offline
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Default 223 Short v1 Part 1 - Project Summary (The whole story)

(Highlight and copy this post, this is the entire story in a nutshell)

Special Thanks To: Larry Trotter, Jed Moskwa, Shane Hayes, George Arredondo Jr., Randy Hutton, GBO Members who provided valuable feedback/input and those that just dropped by and followed the project, GBO Forum Moderators, and GBO Founder Bill, GBO, Saubier.com, Savage Shooters.com

You all have my sincere thanks on helping me make this journey, I could not have done it without you.

223 Short v1 Part 1: Project Summary - Took long enough to get here, that's what you get when you have very little money and no deadlines.

Design Goals:

Cheap Parent Brass - 223 Remington √
Small Powder Capacity - 14gr L’Il Gun = 22 Hornet √
Design: Modern High Pressure √
Performance: 22 Hornet + 50% = 225 yd Coyote Kill √+ (275+yd MPBR)
Simple Savage 223 Rem. Barrel Setback & Rechamber √

A list of loads that may give the best starting place for the adoption of the 223 Short v1, all loads produced <0.5MOA at 50 yards. I only shot for accuracy. We know the round can be hot rodded and I'll leave that up to others.

Parent Cases: Lake City Commercial Once Fired

TiteGroup
30gr Barnes Varmint Grenade COAL 1.475" - 5.2g
30gr Barnes Varmint Grenade COAL 1.475" - 5.4g
40gr Armscor COAL 1.400" - 5.4g
50gr TNT COAL 1.615" - 4.9g

Benchmark
36gr Barnes Varmint Grenade COAL 1.595” - 12.6g
36gr Barnes Varmint Grenade COAL 1.595” - 12.8g
36gr Barnes Varmint Grenade COAL 1.595” - 13.3g
36gr Barnes Varmint Grenade COAL 1.595” - 13.4g
53gr V-Max COAL 1.615” - 13.0g

L'Il Gun
40gr Sierra Varminter COAL 1.500” - 13.2g
50gr V-Max COAL 1.596” - 11.2g
50gr TNT COAL 1.65” - 11.6g
53gr Nosler Varmageddon COAL 1.700” - 11.8g

THE HARDWARE AND TOOLS I USED TO GET THERE

Test Rifle: Savage Axis I Left Hand
Private Sourced Accutrigger
Cut Down & Reinforced Forearm to Accommodate Heavy Barrel
Green Mountain 1:9 Very Heavy Barrel Blank
Cut down to 17" with 11º Target Crown
Chambered by Larry Trotter
PT&G Reamer Print # 51121
Added 3.75lbs Lead Shot to Stock
CenterPointe 4-16x40 Scope
V-Life 6-24x50 Scope
Total Rifle Weight 11.5lbs

Case Prep: Formed in custom CH4D FL Sizer/Forming die using Lee Challenger Breech Lock press with extended breaker bar for extra leverage in a single stroke, Hornady Case Lube Spray

Neck cut off using Proxxon KG-80 Mini Mitre Saw in modified Squirrel Daddy 300 Blackout Jig

Neck trimmed to length using Little Crow Gun Works custom trimmer chucked in cordless drill/driver - have upgraded to Trim-It II

Neck chamfer and debur using Lyman Case Prep Multi-Tool Ends chucked in cordless drill/driver

Flash hole debur using Lyman Flash Hole Uniforming Tool chucked in a cordless drill/driver

Primer Pocket crimp removal using Lyman Primer Pocket Reamer by Hand

Frankford Quick-N-EZ Vibratory Case Tumbler, Lyman Tuff-Nut Media

Neck Only Resize: Upgraded to Lee 223 Collet Die Unmodified with Custom Case Holder

Neck Expanded using Lyman Neck Expander M-1 cut down to 2.5255” body length

Decapping: Lee Universal Decapper unmodified

Primer Seating: On-Press Lee Breech Lock Challenger Press

Primers: CCI No 400 Small Rifle

MTM Universal Loading Tray

Powder Delivery: Lee Safety Powder Scale, Lee Powder Dippers, Frankford DS-750 Digital Powder Scale, Lee Powder Funnel, Lee Perfect Powder Measure, Lee Perfect Powder Measure Deluxe

Bullet Seating: Lee Challenger Breech Lock, Lee 221 FB Seater base cut down 0.275” & body stem cut down 0.250” to total body length 2.07”, 22 TCM Seater Will Work, Lee 223 Rem Factory Crimp base cut down to 2.2040”, Hornady Cam-lock Bullet Puller Unmodified, No-Name Dial Calipers x 2, Upgraded to Husky Digital Caliper

The second part of the project is the development of the 22 Mamba.

Brian Lewis
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  #52  
Old 07-08-2018, 08:31 PM
squirrel_slayer squirrel_slayer is offline
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Default

I think case capacity is a touch higher. or at least with my cases it is. I measured 16.3gr avg with my lot of cases FC headstamp. I haven't measured the PMC or LC cases yet.

I have a little data to add:

40gr armscor 13gr lil gun 2664 ft/sec from 6" AR barrel and 3150 ft/sec in a 18" savage barrel. same bullet with 13.5gr lil gun does 2700 on the nose with the 6" barrel and was quite a bit better in the es/sd department.

40gr armscor bullet over 3.5gr lil gun did 2200 ft/sec from my 18" barrel so basically a 22 magnum and the report is on par with 22lr due to the fast burning powder.

a 40gr v-max did 3260 ft/sec avg over 13.5gr lil gun and the report is far milder than a .223 rem.

over all the cartridge is a success in my opinion. the only caveat I can think of is finding an action that will work well as a repeater.
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  #53  
Old 07-22-2018, 06:12 AM
223Short 223Short is offline
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Default 223 Short/22 Mamba Bolt Action Repeater

Finished communications with CZ to confirm that if an action has controlled feed and controlled extraction with an ejector that activates at the back of the bolt stroke, you will be able to build a fully functional 223 Short or 22 Mamba repeater.

The trouble with the Short is the lack of case length in a Savage action, or any other kind of ejector that works by allowing the case to cant and rub against the side of the breech until the port opening allows it to be kicked off the bolt head.

A controlled feed (Mini-Mauser like on the CZ) type action grabs the case and feeds it, then keeps hold of it during extraction until the ejector kicks it off the bolt.

What you give up in controlled feed is the ability to load single rounds in a tray or on top of an empty magazine like we do with the Savages.
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  #54  
Old 07-22-2018, 08:42 AM
kenbro kenbro is offline
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Default No?

[quote=223Short;27273

What you give up in controlled feed is the ability to load single rounds in a tray or on top of an empty magazine like we do with the Savages.[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily so.
Ken.
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  #55  
Old 08-14-2018, 03:12 AM
223Short 223Short is offline
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Default Please explain, would love to correct the record.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenbro View Post
Not necessarily so.
Ken.
Please explain how this is done as it would make the difference for me in considering a CZ.

Thx.
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  #56  
Old 08-14-2018, 03:18 AM
223Short 223Short is offline
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Default PT&G Finish Chamber Reamer Print # 72746 Rev C

The 22 Mamba No-Turn Neck version spec is final and reamer printer published.

PT&G Finish Chamber Reamer Print # 72746 Rev C





PT&G Finish Chamber Reamer Print # 51121 Rev B - 223 Short No Neck Turn Version.
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  #57  
Old 08-20-2018, 11:33 AM
kenbro kenbro is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 223Short View Post
Please explain how this is done as it would make the difference for me in considering a CZ.

Thx.
Hi,
Sorry for late reply.
I have read that single round followers are available for CZ cf rifles.
If you “Google” there’s lots of info (Not all good) on single loading CFR.
Regards,Ken.
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  #58  
Old 08-23-2018, 09:43 AM
kenbro kenbro is offline
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Just acquired a CZ 550 in 243 W. cal. Unfired.
Tried it at range today and no problem dropping a round on top of the magazine and pushing it into battery with bolt.
Ken.
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  #59  
Old 09-24-2018, 03:12 AM
squirrel_slayer squirrel_slayer is offline
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A long overdue update. I finally got the time to work out the bugs of the .223 short AR. I have a SBR'd lower and built a 6" barrel in .223 short to make a PDW out of it. My target velocity was ~2300 ft/sec with a 40gr bullet. well in short I blew those numbers out of the water!

with 13gr of lil gun and a 40gr bullet I got an average of 2579 going to my 13.5gr load I was rewarded with 2789ft/sec!!! primers still look great and extraction was smooth as can be. this is with a 6" barrel!

The 13.5gr load did 3264 from an 18" barrel so you can see that fast burning powder is doing most of it's work in very little time.

I also managed to get the gas system worked out this afternoon and after opening up the port from .063" to .067" I got almost text book perfect results. bolt hold open and brass piles up at 3 o'clock 2-3' away. i'm happy as a clam to say the least! now to just work out the magazine situation and it's on like donkey kong

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  #60  
Old 09-25-2018, 04:58 AM
17tbs 17tbs is offline
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Default Interestd

I want to see what you can get with a > 60 to77 grain weight bullet
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