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Old 07-01-2022, 02:07 AM
SBS SBS is offline
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Default 20 Hornady Hornet

I see numerous references to 20 Ackley Hornet. I can't find anything on a 20 cal. on a .17 Hornady Hornet case. Seems like a simply conversion, is anyone here loading/shooting one? If so, how does it compare to the 20 AH? Thanks
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Old 07-01-2022, 04:36 PM
JDHasty JDHasty is offline
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Friends who have 17, 19 &/or 20 Hornet based rifles tell me they prefer the 19 & 20. In my case I shoot 17 Hornet in very "settled" areas and right next to and in cattle finishing operations and want to absolutely minimize ANY chance whatsoever for ricochet that has enough mass to carry more than a couple feet and/or pebbles to be launched if I miss.

I get the impression from talking to them that they feel the 19 & 20 performs better for them at the limit of their effective range or extends their effective range.

One of them does have a Martini that he had the barrel set back and the chamber recut from 17 AH to the 17 HH dimensions. He did that about 2016 and from what little I know he is quite happy with it now.

Last edited by JDHasty; 07-01-2022 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 07-01-2022, 07:00 PM
B23 B23 is offline
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Nothing against 17 cals but I've never understood why these big guns and ammo companies continue to develop and introduce new or different 17 caliber cartridges and or ammo instead of doing something in the 20 caliber realm.

For 17's we have the 17 HM2, 17 HMR, 17 WSM, 17 Hornet, 17 Fireball, and 17 Remington. Then, to confuse people even more, they introduced a new 17 HMR ammo a couple years ago called A17 which is a 100 FPS faster shooting version of the regular 17gr Vmax 17HMR ammo. I know people that still get confused between what a 17 WSM and the new higher velocity A17 17HMR ammo is thinking they are the same cartridge.

With there only being one commercially available 20 caliber, rimfire or centerfire, the 204 Ruger, and soooooo many different 17's and 22's, both RF and CF, you'd think they'd want to develop some new 20 cal either RF or CF. I'd like to talk to some of these people in the industry and ask them why they don't appear to have any interest in a new factory chambered 20 caliber of some sort. You know, like a 20 WSM, 20 Hornet, or even 20 Fireball.

For me, even though I really like my 17WSM and 17 Hornets I would have, much, preferred if there never was a 17 WSM or 17 Hornet and instead they'd have showed up as factory 20 WSM and 20 Hornet.

On more than one occasion I've considered rebarreling one of my CZ 527 17 Hornets and turning it into a 20HH but I'm already pretty invested in the 17 Hornet and when I consider what I use my 17 Hornets for I'm just not sure, for me, there is anything to be gained. But, like I said, I would have preferred it if they came as 20 Hornets and there never was a 17 Hornet.

For what it's worth, I don't think there is any downside to doing a 20HH build and it would definitely be a super easy peasy wildcat to do. If I were to build one I'd shoot that 24gr Hornady NTX bullet. With the small case capacity of the Hornet I think that 24 grainer would be a great match. I think the 32gr bullets would kill the velocity of the little Hornet case.
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Old 07-01-2022, 09:05 PM
JDHasty JDHasty is offline
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Very good points regarding bullet availability. C.S. Landis, Sisk, Ackley, Parkinson etc had a lot to say early on regarding their frustrations regarding 17 caliber bullets that lacked terminal performance. What they had available either were blowing up or not opening. It took them a while to get it right.

I have a 204 Ruger, but haven't shot it enough in the 12 years I have had it to have formed an opinion on 20 caliber bullets that is worth much.

On paper at least: What is out there from the large manufacturers has all been designed to withstand north of 4,000 fps MV. It looks as though the Hornady 32 Grain V-max is doing 3,137 fps will drop to 1,899 over 300 yards and I suspect that the engineers were looking at it performing well out to 500 yards out of the 204R. So, let's say you start it at 3,200 - I am inclined to think it would perform at least decently out to 300 yards. https://cpw.state.co.us/PublishingIm...Ballistics.jpg

That being said, we don't consider the 17 caliber 20 grain V-max to perform reliably at much over 225-250 yards and use the Nosler or Hornady HP 20 grain bullets for shooting over 225 in the 17 HH. The terminal performance is much better for us than with the tipped bullets.

Last edited by JDHasty; 07-02-2022 at 02:04 AM.
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Old 07-01-2022, 11:40 PM
moorepower moorepower is offline
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I have got clean kills at over 325yds with a .17H on Pdogs and the 20 Vmax. I think that speed sells more than fpe. I was starting to gather parts for a .20H a few years ago, but then decided that something off of a fireball case made more sense.
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Old 07-02-2022, 12:16 AM
JDHasty JDHasty is offline
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Good to know. We haven’t shot prairie dogs with the 17 H yet. Just rock chucks and digger squirrels. We have shot hundreds upon hundreds of chucks and the tipped bullets just don’t open reliably on big chucks after 225-250 yards. We use the same load for both tipped and HP bullets. 12.2 or 12.4 gr 1680 depending on which rifle. Others around here have not recognized the same on chucks as my buddy and I have, but we shoot at least ten times as many as they do.

Last edited by JDHasty; 07-02-2022 at 12:24 AM.
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  #7  
Old 07-02-2022, 03:42 AM
B23 B23 is offline
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I'm not familiar with a 20gr Hornady HP in 17 cal. I know Hornady used to make a 25gr HP but they discontinued them a couple years ago, are the 25gr HP's what you mean?

I am a little surprised to hear you don't get very reliable expansion with the 20gr Vmax in a 17 Hornet, at any distance, because those are very thin jacketed explosive bullet. If you said you were getting over expansion with little penetration then that is definitely something I could understand. I know a lot of the 17 cal coyote shooters hated the little 20gr Vmax but loved the 25gr HP because the 25gr HP had, much, better penetration and didn't blow up nearly as much as the tipped bullets.
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Old 07-02-2022, 04:16 AM
JDHasty JDHasty is offline
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You are right. Those are Varmint Nightmare 20 grain bullets. We have Dogtown HP 20 grain too, I think they are rebranded Varmagedon.

I shoot Remington and Hornady 25 grain HP bullets out of my 17 Rem and love them. Great on coyotes.

My buddy and I both came to the same conclusion independently on the 20 grain tipped bullets at ranges over 225-250. He remarked to me that sometimes they just don’t seem to kill as well as the HPs with a solid hit. I told him I had made the same observation. We both had more consistent outright kills using the HP 20 grain bullets. Nobody else we talk to has that experience. We shoot a lot of chucks most years and can shoot north of a hundred/day in some of the areas we shoot in so it could be that we notice it if we have five or six crawl away wherein if another guy shoots a hundred in a season they don’t notice it.

If we didn’t have access to accurate range finders we would probably be averse to shooting the HP bullets, but with modern range finders it doesn’t make a difference to us. I bought a hella bunch of Dogtown HPs really cheap and until we had those neither of us had bothered to try HP bullets in the 17 Hornet.

To be honest, neither of us care much if we shoot HP or tipped 20 grain bullets. We just both think the tipped bullet performance on chucks can be iffy at the limits of the ranges we are shooting them at.

Last edited by JDHasty; 07-02-2022 at 04:19 AM.
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  #9  
Old 07-02-2022, 01:35 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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[quote=JDHasty;304239]You are right. Those are Varmint Nightmare 20 grain bullets. We have Dogtown HP 20 grain too, I think they are rebranded Varmagedon.

Both the Dogtown and Varmint Nightmares, are renamed for Midway and Midsouth, and are Nosler's Shots, their old cup and core bullet that originally was made for the commercial shooters in Australia.
Both work very well in the various calibers they make them in and have always been a pretty accurate and explosive bullet for less money.
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  #10  
Old 07-02-2022, 06:37 PM
L.Sherm L.Sherm is offline
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Bill is spot on. Ive shot i dont know how many thousands of the 17and 20 cal midsouth- Dogtown nosler bullets.
When I first started buying the 17 cals were 32.00 -500
20 cals 38.00-500
I'm glad I have several years supply of them that a bought.
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