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  #1  
Old 04-20-2015, 07:31 PM
kmcdonou kmcdonou is offline
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Default Advice on a 17 or 20 caliber

I want to get into predator calling in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan and I am looking to get my first 17 or 20 caliber centerfire. I have some things I am looking for, and have done a lot of reading here and on the Predator Masters forums. Can't seem to figure out the best choice.

What I want is a caliber that won't destroy the fur on fox when shot at over 50 yards and yet still be able to kill a coyote at 150 yards or so (even if I have to wait for a good shot). Based on the feedback I got on Predator Masters for thick cover I plan to bring a shotgun for bobcat and fox and will use the 17 centerfire for coyote. In more open clear cuts, frozen bodies of water, or field edges where shots will be over 50 yards I will use the 17 for everything.

I want a caliber that I can use Lapua or comparable brass that is easy to form and where I don't have to full length resize every time I reload. I am not using an AR and want my brass to last a long time. I also want a caliber where quality brass is likely to be available now and in the future.

I would prefer a caliber that I can run at speeds that will not wear out my barrel after 1000 shots or less and isn't apt to foul every 25 shots. I don't mind running it less than max speeds as long as I can get a load that is very accurate. In fact it would great if the caliber could run a variety of speeds and still be accurate. That way, it is more versatile.

Some of the calibers I have considered are a 17/222, 17/223, 17 tactical, 17 fireball, 20 vartarg, 20 Vartarg Turbo, 20 practical, 20 tactical, and 20-222. Somehow the 20 calibers seem more intriguing to me, but I wonder if a 17 caliber would be better for my stated needs.

I am getting a 223 re-barreled right now in a 1:9 twist. I thought about downloading some 40-45g bullets, but I am not sure how well those will shoot out of my rifle and I worry that heavier 50-55gr bullets might be too much for the fox even if downloaded. I realize it is tough getting a rifle to do right for all fur bearers, but I thought if I limit my shots to fox to over 50 yards and coyote to 150 yards max I might be able to get a rifle that will work well.

Last edited by kmcdonou; 04-20-2015 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 04-20-2015, 08:08 PM
trotterlg trotterlg is offline
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What you describe would likely be a 17 with 25gr bullets or 20gr bullets. One of the 17's made on a .223 case likely would be best for you. The shorter rounds like the 17 Fireball are difficult to get to feed on a repeater and any of the .223 case rounds will be easy to get to feed. As to resizing the brass, depends mostly on your rifle and chamber it has, but if you are using .223 brass, brass life really won't matter to you anyway. The 20's are OK, but will likely blow up a fox at any range. A 17 Remington would be about what you are looking for but you seem to have ruled it out for lack of good brass. Larry
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Old 04-20-2015, 09:06 PM
kmcdonou kmcdonou is offline
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That's a helpful response. Thanks. I was thinking something that shoots 20-30gr bullets would be the ticket.

Does any of the 17s based on the 222 or 223 cases stand out, e.g. 17/223, 17 tactical, 17/222?
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Old 04-20-2015, 09:19 PM
trotterlg trotterlg is offline
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Someone here will know, I have a 17-204 so it is a little hotter than what you are looking for. As long as you go with a 9 twist barrel the 30's will work good too, but you may blow up the 20's if you go much over 4,000fps with them. I would go with what is easy to form, that's why I went with a 17-204, one pass through the die and you are done. The .223 case is the way to go, there are so many of them you will never have to worry about brass. Larry
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Old 04-20-2015, 10:46 PM
MIBULLETS MIBULLETS is offline
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if I were in your situation I would go with the 17/223 also.
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Old 04-20-2015, 10:58 PM
trotterlg trotterlg is offline
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Quote:
if I were in your situation I would go with the 17/223 also.
I think this is likely good advice, simple is better unless you are wanting to really push the envelope or have something that is one of a kind. It should be a dead easy conversion for any .223 rifle. Larry
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Old 04-20-2015, 11:02 PM
trotterlg trotterlg is offline
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Dies should also be really easy, a .223 bushing die with a 17 Cal bushing and use a .20 cal bushing on the way forming. I use the Lee universal 17 cal seating die for my 17-204 and it is great. Larry
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Old 04-21-2015, 01:16 AM
Old Hawkeye Old Hawkeye is offline
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There is no cartridge that will not damage fur on a fox at 50 yards & RELIABLY kill a coyote @ 150 yards. Same thing was on my wish list, but sorry it ain't happenin'. Closest thing you will get is a 20 cal with 35 gr Bergers at 3200-3400 fps, but that don't work ALL the time, cause sometimes you'll blow the fox up & sometimes the coyote will run off. But, then again it will work for both on occasion. Last I checked fox fur brought more money than coyote so I suggest leaning towards fox medicine & takes your chances with the coyotes.
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Old 04-21-2015, 01:24 AM
trotterlg trotterlg is offline
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I have a 20BR and shoot 32gr Nosler BT's and a 17-204 and shoot 30gr Nagels in it, I would go for the 17 with a 25gr Nagle over the 20 cal with 32's for a fox any day. If you are out for fox then load some 20gr 17's (or 17gr if you can find them) and don't shoot a coyote past 100 yards with them Larry
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  #10  
Old 04-21-2015, 01:32 AM
Dooger Dooger is offline
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Being in the UP also, I'd err on the side of coyote, not fox.

Go 17-223 or 17 Rem. There's quality 17 Rem brass out there now and a few companies make neck sizer dies for the chambering.

If you're in a really foxy area a time or two, grab a 22 WMR & shotgun for THAT stand. You'll be good to 100 yards.
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