Run out issues

[livetoshoot]

How much run out, if any, do any of you fellow shooters see? I am always looking to become a more precise loader and recently bought a 21 century shooting concentricity gauge. i love the gauge, its well built and works very well but i have found that the necks of my brass once gone through my dies have considerable runout. so i bought some new redding competition dies and type S dies. i am still seeing around .004" runout on my necks with the new redding dies. my other rcbs dies produce .006"-.008". My press is an RCBS rockchucker and I'm not sure if its part of the problem. i still see good groups from my rifles with my handloads. Usually i get .5" and under groups at 100 yds. Could a better press reduce this runout or would that be a waste of money?

[trotterlg]

It would waste your money. There is far more play in the shell holder than you will ever get in the press. Larry

[17tbs]

Plus 2 for what Larry stated, instead turn your necks.

[livetoshoot]

I already turn my necks and i am pretty careful with all my brass prep. i measure all my necks when turning and they come out very uniform. The die I'm using is a redding Type S neck bushing die but i used to use a regular rcbs neck die. the type s dies have reduced my ruounout to about .004". The runout i measured is total runout and I'm talking about both the OD neck runout and bullet runout with respect to the case body. The case body is nearly perfect with almost no runout. i haven't really seen any change in group size. maybe the alignment isn't too critical?? and no i don't ever load any of ammo to be jammed into the rifling.

[Lenard]

I have found out that measuring the neck along with the bullet, means nothing in shooting small groups. The bullet, just where it comes out of the neck has been my check point. My experience in loading for varmint rifles, is that the less run out, the less fliers one has.

My process is using a RCBS die with the spindle turned to bring the expander plug high in the die. After running a case thru the FL die, I run it through the Lee neck sizer, which expels the fired primer. I cull the cases that give me over l and 1/2 thousands of run out.

[458win]

Take the expander ball out of your dies and see what that does. If your using a bushing die just get the bushing that sizes neck .001-002. No need for expander then.

No expander in my 222 dies gives me .000-001. Expander in and I'm anywhere between 002-006. I've only played with my 222 and the concentriy because it's boringly accurate. So you can actually see if something makes a change or not.

[hemiallen]

One thing I have found, with neck turned, rcbs press, Redding collet size die, is resizing a piece of brass and doing a runout test ( using my Precision V block, motor driven and .0001" readout dial indicator home-made setup) if a case is .0030" runout, I can mark and re-size the case 90 degree's from the first sizing and usually it removes a thousandth or so of runout, continuing to resize seems to not help much.

I have not determined why this is true, I really need to take one of the guns I just shot a bunch of ammo with last week and start reloading it, focusing , better, on getting less runout, and rangetime at 200 &300 yards and focus on selecting the best guns for my next "hunt".

And for my guns, .003 runout doesn't seem to matter, to my shooting ability. I can usually keep 3 in around half an inch, I am not one who typically shoots much better than half an inch, and just recently started shooting 3 if the group looks good, add 2 more if it has a flier to see if that is me or the gun's ability. I have "lucked out" and have a few targets in the .2-.3 range, but half an inch is the norm average, I believe. And I do know some benchrest shooters can see fliers due to the ammo and not their pulling that flier.

Hope this helps, it might motivate me to get off my butt, lol. All my toys are now clean and ready to see range time, I need to work-up and make a list of each's capability with me driving.

Allen

[Kevin Gullette]

What is your neck turning, and measuring, set-up?

Neckwall thickness T.I.R. , with a "good" set-up, should be less than 0.0001".

Kevin

[livetoshoot]

So I've been in ND all spring and summer but i am back now and doing some loading for a new rifle. I broke down and bought a new press to try and solve my runout issues. I went with a redding 700 Ultra mag, its very sturdy and well built. Its probably quite a bit overkill but i am happy with it so far. As it turns out the new press has done the trick for me and i am now getting very minimal runout. Everything i do in my loading process is very precise and accurate so to have a problem like this was driving me crazy and i am glad to have it in the past. thank you all for your help and good shooting to you all.

[honest hop]

kevin gullette-?- nice work there. real nice. I just bought a 21st century shooting neck turning set-up for use in my lathe that i REALLY like. I used a an old sinclair handheld for years and never did have much fondness for using it. this 21st century can be bought with a nice bench mnt'd lathe base if you haven't a metal lathe. it has an accurate cutter depth adj.,correct angle cutters available .0002''!!!! the unit uses a press mn't neck 'expander to 'pre-expander .0001'' over std expander I pull the tailstock or just use a tool holder directly mnt'd to carriage under power with mic. stop. since a stroke, the lathe does a much more consistent turn than short-circuited muscles. all metal, not the cheapest manf. very consistent, and easy to use with or without elec. power. oh-and kudos to saubier Aussies for the small caliber forums here. so much continuing learning here.- honest hop