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  #11  
Old 12-11-2016, 01:56 PM
jpstratton jpstratton is offline
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Originally Posted by DAA View Post
I disagree .

- DAA
^^^^^^Was wondering when this would pop up.^^^^^^
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  #12  
Old 12-11-2016, 02:48 PM
17VLD 17VLD is offline
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Default Adam you should be ashamed....

I hope no one gets hurt trying to push a 20VT to 3800fps with a 40 grain bullet.
Maybe you have done it somehow with a mixture of hybrid powders or some other magical bs,but I really hope others here don't try it.Perhaps you are trying to be the new Zing Pow on Saubier.Its not even April first.
Matt
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  #13  
Old 12-11-2016, 02:56 PM
Matt_3479 Matt_3479 is offline
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Originally Posted by bburrell View Post
Matt, where do you live and how far is a typical shot? I have had coyotes run off with a solid hit from a r204 at 35 yards, and others drop dead with a single shot at 350 yards. Shot placement and bullet selection are important at any range with any caliber. Seems like every time I take out my 204r, I wish that I had my shotgun. When I take out my shotgun, I wish that I had my 204r. Just look at ballistics on the 20vt. I have shot coyotes with my 17 hornet out to 200 yards with good placement. If you are typically finding shots of 300 to 500 yards then take your 204. If you are typically shooting a coyote under 250 yards, then he will never know the difference between a 204 and a 20vt or ?????? just about anything else. you are making this decision too tough. If you already have a 204 and a 20 tac, then it is not about killing a coyote, you are just trying to justify something you want that you don't have. You have my permission to feel good about buying another gun even if it won't kill a water buffalo on your next safari to Africa. Burt
Thanks for all the responses!! That's pretty much exactly what I am trying to do. And right before Christmas too which is really hanging me up. It's a cooper model 21 which I have never owned and only shot 1 cooper before. I don't overly like the thought of single shot but never owned one of those either so I can't knock it till I try it. Its basically new, in box, with redding type s full length bushing dies with bushings and brass all for under 1300 dollars
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  #14  
Old 12-11-2016, 03:00 PM
foxhunter foxhunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAA View Post
I disagree .

- DAA
I'm with DAA on this one as well as Adam, though I think 3800 with a 40 in a 20 vt is pushing it. the coyote doesn't know what the caliber on the barrel is marked, speed is speed.
having shot a lot of coyotes with a 17 Remington and 30 gr Berger's , many a follow up shot was administered to keep the tracking to a minimum. would shoot a coyote in the boiler room and he would go into get well whirls, spinning and biting at the bullet wound just before he would straighten out and exit at Mach 1 speed. placing a quick follow up shot in the middle of a whirl always did the job.
it's all about bullet placement with the small calibers.
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  #15  
Old 12-11-2016, 03:06 PM
df06 df06 is offline
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Default coyotes

Quote:
Originally Posted by L Cazador View Post
In my experience none of the 20's or 17's or 223's are coyote weapons. In the last 30 years, I've had just as many run off as I dropped dead right there with these calibers. You're just educating the coyotes with these small calibers. Get a 22/250 or a 243 and a shotgun for those close in multiple shots. I don't like taking shots at coyotes beyond two hundred yards but if you must be sure you're not just going to educate them. My favorite weapons are my AR in 243WSSM and my 12ga with #4 buck but my Savage Varmint in 22/250 is a close second to the 243.
I sure disagree with this. I have shot many coyotes and seen many more shot by myself, brothers and son. We use 223s primarily, but some 204s and I use a 17 at times. The 223 is a terrific coyote killer as is the 204. I have not had issues with the 17 rem but my brother has but he used the wrong bullet, a 20 vmax. I have had mixed, but mostly good results with the 17FB. I have a 22-250 that has not been out of the safe in at least five years. I do use a swift occasionally, not because its a great cartridge, it is, but because I like the custom rifle that I have.
I will continue to use the 223, 204,20 VT and 17 Rem for coyotes.
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  #16  
Old 12-11-2016, 03:13 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17VLD View Post
I hope no one gets hurt trying to push a 20VT to 3800fps with a 40 grain bullet.
Maybe you have done it somehow with a mixture of hybrid powders or some other magical bs,but I really hope others here don't try it.Perhaps you are trying to be the new Zing Pow on Saubier.Its not even April first.
Matt
I'm thinking that the claim of 3800 fps with a 40 grain bullet in a 20 Vt was ghost written by the world acclaimed Chinese ballistic expert named Band Ding Ow.

-BCB
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  #17  
Old 12-11-2016, 04:22 PM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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This thread is sorta widening out from is a .20VT a good choice for coyotes to some serious safety issues, always appropriate IMO.
My .20 Tactical and Match chambered .204 both are running as hot as I'm comfortable with as well as at their accuracy sweet spot just "under" 3,900FPS, the .204 with the 39 grain BlitzKing and the .20 Tac with the 40 V-Max. Both would be great coyote killers as far as I can shoot, if fur wasn't a consideration and I just wanted dead coyotes.
The load I run with 32 grainers in the two both rifles ended up about 4,150ish FPS, above that case life goes to heck.
My .20 VarTarg's load is a 32 grain V-Max at about 3,780ish FPS and that's as hard as I intend to lean on it. With all due respect, when I see the little .20 VT mentioned as running 4198FPS I start thinking white canes, guide dogs and selling pencils on street corners !
With the incredible accuracy the .20-VT gives me using the 32 grain V-Max at just under 3,800FPS I'd be comfortable going after coyotes with it to 300ish yards or maybe a little better. As a coyote popper it fills a niche nicely but in general the .17Tac with 30 grain Berger's if I care about fur and the .20 Tac/.204 with 40 grainers if I don't are what I'd grab if I were headed out this afternoon.
Good thread .
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  #18  
Old 12-11-2016, 05:02 PM
ab_bentley ab_bentley is offline
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Doug's right, this thread is OT.

If you think that a 20VT isn't capable of 3800 with a 40gr bullet, you're entitled to that opinion. I on the other hand as well as several of my customers, friends, and acquaintances, know first hand that it's not only capable but safe. This isn't something new, it's all in the AA2200 with a Lapua case or reformed case.

17VLD, why should I be ashamed at the truth. I am sure you're a smart man but publically calling me a liar on something that you clearly have no idea what you're spouting off about doesn't portray that. So, sir with all due respect to a stranger please keep you opinions to yourself on topics you're ignorant about.

For those that are interested in specifics please PM me and I'll help you out.



Adam


Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinJoe View Post
You may find the AA2200 pretty dirty if you run it too mild, most ball powders do that it seems. I shoot 2200 in my 20VT's with 40 grain bullets running about 3700+, so my load generates a lot more pressure, but it is accurate & clean. If you want to stay on the mild side, try to find VV N-130 or Alliant RL-7 in place of the H4198. I have no experience with this, maybe somebody else has tried it, but you might even consider IMR4227 or AA1680 for milder loads. Good luck with it & be careful, Joe
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCazador, post: 36767232, member: 1215691
I'm at 3700+fps with the 40g. bullet in my Vartarg and brass longevity is great. What Adam say's is true with AA2200 powder and terrific groups too!

Last edited by ab_bentley; 12-11-2016 at 05:21 PM.
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  #19  
Old 12-11-2016, 06:10 PM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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Adam, with all due respect I gotta tell ya that 17VLD was shooting sub .22 calibers of all kinds many years before you first showed up on this site asking all kinda questions and green as as a pea.
As you say, everyone gets his own opinion but implying 17VLD is ignorant of all the things this thread has branched out to shows ignorance all right and certainly not his.
Everyone having an opinion is a given and a good one but safety issues are probably the most important thing we discuss on this site. With the .221 case having a SAAMI max pressure of 52,000PSI I'd sure like to see some tests run on some of the loads and velocities some hand out like cookie recipes just cause they have gotten away with em..."so far". They just don't all come together safely! At a point, some a this stuff becomes physics and opinions go out the window. As they put in the manual at Western Powders, "Velocity itself is a pressure sign", sometimes an over-pressure sign! Safety is the most important aspect of every thread that gets posted here.
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  #20  
Old 12-11-2016, 06:22 PM
ab_bentley ab_bentley is offline
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65k psi according to QL.

Doug, completely understand where you're coming from, this isn't something I've pulled from my ass. The last 8yrs I've been saying the same thing, AA2200 3800 ect. But when you directly target me and say that the truth isn't, that's something else.

The psi developed for the 221 was working with the powders at the time. We have powders today that make the 30-06 into a light magnum. So to stay under the umbrella of the old ways is fine, but it's just not so anymore. This was at one time this the premier sight for powder/ case development, but when you directly oppose proven data it's a wonder people openly post here.

Adam
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