N120/17 Ackley Hornet Problems???

[fosters]

Back in 2010, way before CZ and Hornady came out with the commercial version of the 17AH, two of my friends and I had Greg Tannel build 3 guns on CZ 22 Hornet actions. After very little load development, Gary our R&D guy, came up with a load using N120 that easily shoots about 1/8" at 100 off the bench. Needless to say, we were quite pleased with what Greg had accomplished! Over the years we've shot lots of crows with those guns, but last year during a lull in the deer hunting, I put out the crow call to provide a little action in the mid-day. Shot the first crow, and thought the report was noticeably louder than normal, the bolt was a bit harder to open, and upon extraction, the primer fell out......obviously pressures were abnormally high.....
We weigh EVERY charge meticulously....we then disassembled all the rest of the loaded rounds and weighed each charge, every one was spot on to specs....

Went to the farm yesterday, as deer season opened, always take the 17AH for various varmints and other targets of opportunity, and discovered a lot of turquoise colored corrosion on the case necks and mouths when I opened up the box of rounds.

These rounds were loaded a couple of years ago.....we think there may be some type of chemical reaction between the N120 powder, the brass and bullet that's going on to cause this....very puzzling?

I have handloaded rounds of other calibers that are 20 plus years old, loaded with H4831, 4350, 4198 and various other powders that still shoot perfectly today, with no apparent issues.

So we go to the 8 lb jug of N120....it smells strange, a lot different that when we un-sealed it originally.....lots more vapors coming off than when first opened. Gary and I are wondering if any of you all who use N120 have had anything similar occur, and/or if in the case of N120, if you only load what you think your going to shoot for that year?

Any thoughts you guys have will be greatly appreciated!
Steve

[218bee]

It sounds like your powder went bad. If it was me I wouldn't use any more of it. One other thing I noticed when some of my powder expired was rust colored debris in the powder.

It's important how the powder is stored. Try to keep it in a place where the temperature and humidity stays the same year round. Preferably, in the house, not in the basement or garage.

[wally bennett]

I made a 17A/H in a Ruger 77/22h action as a switch barrel gun about 6 years ago i also use 120 powder and 20gr either v/max or 20gr HPFB usually Berger with my first batch of 120 i used 10.8 grs for 3,637 ft/sec a perfect load that my gun likes when that ran out another batch was used and 10.8 grs was a lot slower but cant remember what velocity i ended up using 11.4gr for 3.650ft.sec and was happy with that 1/2 way through that batch i thought i had better try the next batch to be one stop ahead i started at 10.5grs and worked up in 1/10grs to be safe and it needed 11.0grs for my preferred 3,650 ft/sec so for the three batches there was a extreme spread of 0.06gr it dont seem a lot for the big case boys but for a A/H case its a lot
I dont load for max velocity and nowhere near the max pressure of my set up i load for accuracy and case life
As for the smell i think that is your problem
Good luck with it

[Dean2]

Bad smell equals bad powder. If you stored it right and depending on how old the cans are I would get hold of the distributor and see if he will replace them. Powder should easily last 40 years if properly stored. If this powder isn't, and it sounds like it is missing the standard by a lot, then the manufacturer should stand good on replacement.

[Daryl]

I would add to Dean's comment, that if other powder stored in the same location didn't go bad, there is definitely a problem with that lot # of N120.

[fosters]

After some diligent research, Gary, our R&D guy, came up with this article from Layne Simpson published in Rifleshooter magazine, back in November of 2012. It seems to pretty much address the problems and symptoms we experienced. Most notably, how the plastic lid on the container went from originally being a purple/bluish color to almost white. Also the extreme acrid smell that would fry your nostrils as another characteristic that our jug of N120 had. Here's the link if you are interested.
Steve


http://www.rifleshootermag.com/reloa...der-shelf-life

[montdoug]

Steve threads like this always make me nervous when I have 6 or 7 hundred of the same or similar load in the gun room where they been sitting 10 years or better....What If???.....
I just checked the neck on a whole bunch of WW cases formed to .17 Ackley Hornet with 12.1 grains of N120 a 20 grain V-Max and a WSR primer. They were loaded about 2005 or 2006 using a 2lb plastic jug of 6 I had and still have some of. I checked the lot and date of manufacture, here it is.



I'm pretty sure that is saying it was made in 2003 (Dang I'm gett'n old !!).
Long story short, on my ammo it looks like I loaded it yesterday, no green on any of em any where. On this jug of powder itself which has been open since 2006ish (the jug has a screw top not the plug type), it smells just fine, looks just fine and I'd guess is just fine.
So that tells me that all lots on N120 aren't at all the same that's kinda spooky ain't it?
Not sure it applies but we have a real dry environment, and my powder is kept in a cool dry situation. We have humidifiers on our heating and cooling systems because it's so dry here it's hard on the homes.
Real curious on your issue?? Be sure and let us know if ya get a definitive answer .