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Old 01-01-2018, 08:28 PM
Jingle Jingle is offline
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Default To push or not to push?

I read in my Hornady manual to not push the shoulder back on a 6mmTCU, so does this also apply with sizing .221 FB for the Contender as well? They claim it tampers with accuracy and case life.

If this is the case and you shouldn't push the shoulder back and only neck size how do I set my die up properly to do this? Or am I reading into this too much?

Is this just a 6mmTCU thing for the T/C Contender?
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Old 01-01-2018, 08:35 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Default To push or not to push ?

Jingle.. I, for the most part, I do not push my shoulders back on any of my reloads, after they are fired in the chamber I am loading them for. Neck size only, unless they stretch forward, at the shoulder, after a few firings, then fL resize and go back to neck only.
On a standard set of dies, if you read the instructions on them, they will advise you turn the FL die down to just touch the shell holder in the up position. Then back the die off about 1/4 turn, so it is not touching the shoulder of the case. Bill K
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Old 01-01-2018, 09:49 PM
JSH JSH is offline
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It is a headspace thing. TC platform is a different ball of wax than a bolt gun to a point.
Bump the shoulder on anything to much, you have headspace issues, simple.

SSK uses the bullet jammed to hold the case back against the breach. Makes the case blow out at the shoulder. Rather than have it rest against the extractor, firing pin may or may not set the primer off. Against the extractor, the case will grow and grab the side walls of the chamber, but unsupported at the rear will move as far as it can trying to stop against the bolt face or received.
That I turn gives you head separation at the web of the case.

Leave a bit of crush on the shoulder and most times all is well. Some will argue the point of crush. I only do it upon initial fire forming. Has worked for me for a long time.
One of those things it is easier to show you than try and tell a person.
Clear as mud?
Jeff
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Old 01-01-2018, 10:19 PM
Jingle Jingle is offline
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Thanks Bill

I have a box of brand new Nosler .221 brass and some Lapua coming, I will back the sizing die out a quarter turn and run one case and see if it fits properly in my Contender action. I suppose I can check the head space with a feeler gauge, by closing it between the case and the action right?

So backing the sizing die out a 1/4 turn (after it is adjusted to kiss the shell holder) never allows the shoulders to touch.

Nosler brass says- "fully prepped, ready to load"

Maybe I should just measure the cases and load them up, then on the second firing decap them and just size the necks, correct?
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Old 01-01-2018, 10:25 PM
dungheap dungheap is offline
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In a Contender, crush fit is imperative when forming brass from another parent case, i.e., .223 or .222 Remington. Get your cases like 95 percent formed, trim just a little long, and then do your final sizing just a little at a time. You don't want to have to slam your action closed, but you don't want it to close without any resistance either. I always found that sort of a sharp snap worked well for the likes of .30 Herret, 7mm TC/U, .357 Herret and such. I think that making .221 Fireball cases should be very easy once you get a feel for it
.
New brass, especially the likes of Nosler or Lapua, should be a load 'n' shoot proposition, unless you run into cases with deformed case mouths. If so, neck size 'em.

If you have to slam the action, the rounds probably won't fire because the action won't lock up properly. If there's no resistance, you'll have rounds that won't go off because the primer strikes will be too light, and if they do go off, the primers will likely be backed out.

Hope this doesn't get confusing. If so, fire away with the questions.

The 6mm TC/U warning is essentially the same, perhaps worded a little differently.

Last edited by dungheap; 01-01-2018 at 11:32 PM.
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:00 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Default To push or not to push ?

Jingle: Go to the Bellms TC site/webpage. Mike and his son have a wealth of knowledge, information and parts and repair, etc. if you need such. But just read some of his articles on headspace, etc on the TC contender/encore actions, and you can gain much.
Even PM them for added info and help, if needed. Bill K
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:34 AM
Jingle Jingle is offline
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I think I get it.

Its like water in a bath tub going from one end to the other until it settles.

I only have new .221 FB brass at the moment. Maybe at one point I will make some from .223 brass. The only other single shot break open I owned was the Handi rifle and even with factory federal fusion rounds, some would have to be slammed shut


Guess I have a bit of reading to do then over at this Bellms fellas site.
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Old 01-02-2018, 02:13 AM
NeilA. NeilA. is offline
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Hi Jingle,

I致e been working with my new .221 and Lapua brass.

My rifle does not like virgin brass nearly as well as once fired brass. Problem is, I like to have over a thousand cartridges ready for spring and have almost all virgin brass. Ive been neck sizing virgin brass with my type S bushing die and paying very close attention to my OAL(15-20 thousandths off the lands). I think I will be okay with my standard .221 load-I got dime size groups last time. I値l decide next time I get to my range weather to keep experimenting or start loading. My goal is to have Bullets that shoot well enough to load 1200 or so for spring and all of them to be consistently accurate.

The fired brass will be type s neck sized and reloaded and labeled. It seems to shoot consistently around .25 so I値l use it for prairie dogs. The virgin brass I値l hopefully burn through on gophers, if I can稚 get it as good as the once fired. Anyway, I値l just continue neck sizing with my type s bushing die until I need to push the shoulder back a little- I知 guessing it will be the 5th loading or so.

Neil
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Old 01-02-2018, 03:57 AM
Jingle Jingle is offline
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Wow Neil 1200 by spring!

I like to work up in small batches, 10 rounds at a times until I find a good load. No prairie dogs where I live only woodchucks and they are all sleeping right now as its pretty much 0 degrees. Jan/Feb is great for coyotes around here.

The goal is to get one with the .17 hornet, one with the .221 FB and one with the 6.5 CM. I need a coyote hat and mittens.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:26 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
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Don't know what kind of setup or situation you guys have.
I built a big brick shop and as a weldor. I have the equipment.
And a lathe.

Place I get steel from, torch cuts discs out of plate for folks and often have
bad cuts, wrong sizes etc. I pick up a few at times. Turn the edge's smooth
as they're rough edged torch cutouts. 1 1/2" -- 2" thick will stop any bullet short of a BMG.

When it comes time to turn such things. To find center I weld a "stob" near center to chuck on til the edge is turned down IF it's too large a dia to chuck direct to.

Then whenever I can come up with a 2' section of pipe about the right size I
turn a lip on a disc so they'll fit down in and then weld 'em up solid.
Makes one hell of a bullet trap. I've fired Dad's .375 H&H with 300gr and several hundred .45 Colts in it. Even a few 250gr from this .358 Ultra mag.
Just need to stuff an old pillow, or some such in the mouth to keep splatters from flying back at me. Every few years I dump the clump of lead out and remelt it.

Mighty handy to have when trying to build test loads. Only about 30 feet out there so it's real handy. I'm a bachelor too, so that helps matters.

About 8 1/2" to 10" steel pipe around 2 feet long is perfect. Should be easy to find around pipelines or oil fields.

Cheers and Happy New Year, just sharing the idea mostly.
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it's about CONTROL!!"
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