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  #31  
Old 06-02-2022, 02:38 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill K View Post
Regardless of what type you want, need or use the main reason the controlled feed action was developed, was to have a positive pickup and pull out of the cartridge in dangerous situations.
Such as a dangerous game hunt/animal and war, from what I have read numerous times, mostly in books/articles regarding the Mauser action.

So, you use what you want to build a rifle, for the conditions you expect it too work under and be happy.
Good comments, Bill.

Good old Peter Paul Mauser apparently knew what he was doing. The action has been around for a long time, and it's been copied a few times over the years. In his writings, he was especially proud of perfecting the internal magazine with the 98 action. All in all, "he done good".

I need to make better use of my day today than just running around in circles. I'm getting dizzy........

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Last edited by Bayou City Boy; 06-02-2022 at 02:43 PM.
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  #32  
Old 06-02-2022, 02:47 PM
JDHasty JDHasty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill K View Post
Regardless of what type you want, need or use the main reason the controlled feed action was developed, was to have a positive pickup and pull out of the cartridge in dangerous situations.
Such as a dangerous game hunt/animal and war, from what I have read numerous times, mostly in books/articles regarding the Mauser action.

So, you use what you want to build a rifle, for the conditions you expect it too work under and be happy.

The bottom line is that nobody has figured out a way for a bolt action, push feed repeater to function reliably with rimmed cartridges. The Mauser controlled round system works, and can be made to work reliably with rimmed cartridges. The rimfire twin extractor system also works and can be made to work reliably with rimmed cartridges. To the best of my knowledge there has never been a push feed bolt action repeater developed that has functioned reliably with rimmed cartridges.
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  #33  
Old 06-02-2022, 02:50 PM
barretcreek barretcreek is offline
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788? Sold alright. Use a Sako/M16 extractor if you want more strength.
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  #34  
Old 06-02-2022, 02:55 PM
JDHasty JDHasty is offline
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Originally Posted by moorepower View Post
I am guessing the Hornet is one the most underrated rounds in history. When I was younger than 40, I had not idea why anyone would want one, but now it is the first rifle I grab when I hit a dogtown. I am a Savage guy, but the 25 is not anything that I could see myself owning. I am a huge fan of the Howa mini, but it's really sad that we our options have run out. I keep looking for a low wall, and they come up occasionally but very seldom. I would think that Henry could H make a run of the break action in .17H and sell them quickly, with only having to modify an extractor.
I had wanted a good 22 Hornet since my youth and in the 1980s, I spent a lot of effort and time trying to import a BRNO Fox from Canada, before giving up in frustration.

I could, and should, have bought an Anschutz or Walther. I finally got a CZ 527 and since then have found the cartridge to be everything I wanted it to be and more.
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  #35  
Old 06-02-2022, 02:57 PM
JDHasty JDHasty is offline
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Originally Posted by barretcreek View Post
788? Sold alright. Use a Sako/M16 extractor if you want more strength.
The 788 in 30-30 and 44 Magnum uses a rotating bolt head and extractor setup similar to a 580 series rimfire action. The rest of them use a non-rotating bolt head and are straight up push feed.

This is a 788 bolt head for a rimmed cartridge


It is stripped, but you can see that it takes an extractor that is very similar to the extractor on a 580 series rimfire action that grabs the rim of the cartridge as it strips it from the magazine.

This is a 580 series bolt head


The 591 uses a hybrid bolt head that has features of the 788 extractor setup

This is a rimless 788 bolt face. It will not work with rimmed cartridges.

Last edited by JDHasty; 06-02-2022 at 03:41 PM.
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  #36  
Old 06-02-2022, 03:07 PM
barretcreek barretcreek is offline
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How do the makers of actions (vs complete rifles) do market wise? Just make two size actions. One like the Remington rear locking RF and another size of a L46. Want a finished rifle, we have a custom shop. Get in line.
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  #37  
Old 06-02-2022, 03:45 PM
B23 B23 is offline
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Short of rimfires I think we the small caliber small case capacity shooters are but a blip on the radar in the overall shooting/guns/ammo world so what we would like, unfortunately, has little meaning to the powers to be.

BUT, instead of trying to get a manufacture to make something that works with the rimmed Hornet case maybe it would be easier if they just developed a new cartridge, something in the middle between the Hornet and Fireball case, that was not of a rimmed design so it would easily feed/function in a push feed action. Not that it will ever happen but I'd love to see something with a case capacity around 20gr H20, none rimmed case design, decent brass, shooting the 24gr Hornady NTX bullet. I think something like that could easily push those 24gr bullets in the 3800fps range. I'm pretty heavily invested in the 17 Hornet but I'd jump on something like that quicker than a rat on a Cheeto.
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  #38  
Old 06-02-2022, 03:56 PM
JDHasty JDHasty is offline
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5.7 Johnson/17 Pee Wee

I was looking at the Pee Wee, but bought the Garin Strikesystem equivalent from another member here. I am going to drop off two of my 580 actions with a guy who has threaded a bunch of 541s for local small bore silhouette shooters and does a lot of work for bench rest shooters. I have decided to make up one into a 17 Garin and a second one into a 20 Garin. These will be single shot rifles, but I use a Calhoon single shot adapter in my CZ 527 rifles as often as I use a magazine in them.

I would think this could easily be made up as a rimmed cartridge for single shots as well by forming the brass from 327 Federal cases.

Last edited by JDHasty; 06-02-2022 at 04:05 PM.
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  #39  
Old 06-02-2022, 04:22 PM
B23 B23 is offline
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Something like a 20 cal. Johnson/Spitfire but commercially available and supported by one of the big manufactures. Hornady seems to do the best job of developing new cartridges then promoting and supporting them so they'd be my vote for a new venture like that.

Unfortunately everyone is so busy cranking out mainstream cartridge ammo something new in the small caliber world is likely the furthest thing from their mind.
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  #40  
Old 06-02-2022, 04:42 PM
moorepower moorepower is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDHasty View Post
The bottom line is that nobody has figured out a way for a bolt action, push feed repeater to function reliably with rimmed cartridges. The Mauser controlled round system works, and can be made to work reliably with rimmed cartridges. The rimfire twin extractor system also works and can be made to work reliably with rimmed cartridges. To the best of my knowledge there has never been a push feed bolt action repeater developed that has functioned reliably with rimmed cartridges.
Are the SMLE and Mosin both crf? I have both, but never actually paid attention to either and not near either. I would sat the Ruger 77H and the Browning feed well, though I don't own a Browning. I think the magazine design plays a huge roll on how a Hornet feeds.
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